just bought a PH meter...now trying to understand how to use it

[odie]

after 30 years of brewing with tap water...I finally got a PH meter. those yellow digital ones.

Seems my tap water stabilizes around 8-9 on the meter.

after mashing several hours while away at work, came home and pulled a mash sample...5.9 on the meter.

Am I in the ballpark?

 

[stamandster]

Congrats on the new equipment. So, 5.8 is a little high but not horrible. The range between 5.2 to 5.6 generally the best for enzymatic activity.

 

[odie]

well I typically mash about 10 hours since I'm gone at work.

I have a water softener but usually bypass for brewing to keep whatever minerals are in the water. Maybe mix a little soft water in?

 

[mac_1103]

I suppose that checking at ten hours is better than checking at ten minutes since it takes a while for pH to stabilize. But I have no idea whether one should expect pH to rise or fall after several hours.

 

[odie]

well I can't hang around to continuously check PH. how fast should it stabilize after mash in?

I have about 30 min in morning. But my BIAB recirc is a tiny 5V DC pump. Probably takes an hour to recirc the entire volume.

 

[tracer bullet]

I typically mash an hour or so, and check afterwards. Yeah it's a bit late to take any action on it, but at least I know for next time what to do differently (add more acid for example).

You're going to want some calibration solution. I'd hate for you to have perfect pH and then fix a problem that you don't have. I'd get 4 and 7 since you'll normally be between them. I don't worry about a 3rd cal at pH 10.

 

[odie]

it came with some calibration packets of some kinda minerals or powder. Figured that was for recalibration after it's been used a bunch. It should be already calibrated when new?

 

[DuncB]

I would calibrate it and not believe it arrived calibrated.
Also very important to have storage medium for the pH meter.
If the bulb dries out or you store it in water it will fail / be inaccurate.

 

[mac_1103]

I have about 30 min in morning.

Take a sample just before you leave and another one when you get back. You don't have to read the morning sample right away. It needs to cool anyhow.

It should be already calibrated when new?

Not necessarily. I calibrate mine every time I use it and it does drift some between uses. The solutions should be made up with distilled or RO water.

 

[odie]

I would calibrate it and not believe it arrived calibrated.
Also very important to have storage medium for the pH meter.
If the bulb dries out or you store it in water it will fail / be inaccurate.

bulb dried out it fails? stored in water it fails? dry or wet it fails? what is the bulb made of and what should it be stored in? It came dry.

 

[odie]

Take a sample just before you leave and another one when you get back. You don't have to read the morning sample right away. It needs to cool anyhow.

Not necessarily. I calibrate mine every time I use it and it does drift some between uses. The solutions should be made up with distilled or RO water.

that's a lot of testing solution. It only came with a couple packs.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Each pack will likely need 4oz - 8oz or so of distilled water to dissolve in, should say exactly how much on the pack. This you can seal and keep to use for next time around, I keep my mixed solutions in mason jars with the lids marked for each ph calibration level. You don't need to mix new calibration solution each time, just store them sealed. After you do a calibration a couple times it becomes very simple and only takes a minute.

 

[mac_1103]

that's a lot of testing solution. It only came with a couple packs.

What he said. It's not single use. The solutions should be good for several months.

 

[Skeeter686]

It needs to cool anyhow.

Yes. Mine says it compensates for temperature, but it seems that the temperature of the wort affects the pH of the wort and not just the measuring device. You do actually need to cool the wort if you want an accurate measurement.

I just wanted to mention this in case this one also says it adjusts for temperature and the OP believes it, like I used to.

 

[DuncB]

bulb dried out it fails? stored in water it fails? dry or wet it fails? what is the bulb made of and what should it be stored in? It came dry.

pH meter storage solution.
https://www.hannainst.com/ph-electrode-maintenance-calibration-guide

 

[jerrylotto]

You can put a few ml of the storage solution into the black cap and tape it closed with making tape.

 

[MicroMickey]

If your meter is anything like the ones I've used, you'll need to soak the probe bulb in either storage solution or calibration solution for perhaps an hour. After initial soaking, store it in the solution.
Be careful on the "Temperature Correction" feature. DO NOT CHECK your pH in a hot mash! Cool the sample down some or you will eventually burn out the probe bulb.
pH is determined AT MASH TEMPERATURE. The mash pH should be 5.1–5.5 when measured at mash temperature, and 5.4–5.8 when measured at room temperature. (At mash temperature the pH will measure about 0.3 lower due to greater dissociation of the hydrogen ions.)
I hope that this will help without confusing you more.

 

[jerrylotto]

And lower the pH with a few drops of phosphoric acid or lactose acid solution if it is too high. Do it before the mash has proceeded too much (first 15 min) or you're going to extract excess tannins from the grains.

 

[odie]

this is what I bought

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HLXBBK4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

 

[jerrylotto]

Yeah - I own one of these and used it for a year before buying my Apera meter. I'd never go back but it worked.

 

[Yesfan]

I also have the Apera. I had a Ph Doctor before. They look like the same meter, but the Apera uses triple A batteries instead of those button style ones. I like that the Apera, at least mine, came with the 4 and 7 calibration solutions.

There's a few videos from David Heath Homebrew, Bitter Reality Homebrew (the most detailed), and Short Circuited Brewers that pretty in depth on meter use/setup if you haven't already seen those.

 

[shoengine]

I suppose that checking at ten hours is better than checking at ten minutes since it takes a while for pH to stabilize. But I have no idea whether one should expect pH to rise or fall after several hours.

I've measured several mashes at 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes and found almost no variance after the first reading.

 

[mac_1103]

I've measured several mashes at 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes and found almost no variance after the first reading.

But have you checked at either ten minutes or ten hours?

 

[jerrylotto]

I also have the Apera. I had a Ph Doctor before. They look like the same meter, but the Apera uses triple A batteries instead of those button style ones. I like that the Apera, at least mine, came with the 4 and 7 calibration solutions.

There's a few videos from David Heath Homebrew, Bitter Reality Homebrew (the most detailed), and Short Circuited Brewers that pretty in depth on meter use/setup if you haven't already seen those.

I have both a food probe and the liquid probe with mine and three calibration solutions, 4, 7; and 10. I'll be sure to check out those videos. Thanks!

 

[Yesfan]

I tried to find the specific ones I watched, but am not having luck. I think these are some of them.

Brewfather Brewing Water Tutorial, Short Circuited Brewers

The above, I think was what led me to buy the Apera meter. I miss this channel. Brian had some great content.

Calibrating Your pH Meter, Bitter Reality Brewing

There's an Apartment Brewer episode where Steve linked to the BRB video above, but I can't find it. BRB's video is more in depth anyway.

Mastering beer pH with John Palmer, Brulosophy Show

A good one with John Palmer.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

after mashing several hours while away at work, came home and pulled a mash sample...5.9 on the meter.

I tend to think that the best approach is:

• Use brewing software to predict your mash pH and needed adjustments (I use BeerSmith)
• Measure your actual mash pH (I take a sample at 30 minutes)
• Use that reading to understand how accurate the prediction is and make adjustments for future batches

The first step does require that you know your starting water profile. I start with my tap water, so I know there is some variance from day to day. More and more I skip taking a pH reading on brew day because I know my adjustments will get me into the "good enough" range...though there is some valid argument to be made that one should take several pH measurements at various points in the process (mash, pre-boil, post-boil, final beer).

 

[Bobby_M]

pH meters are not for the faint of heart. In order to rely on any readings, you have to be willing to calibrate or test the accuracy on a regular basis and the probes are prone to failure whenever they feel like it.

You can keep calibration solutions but they can definitely get cross contaminated and become less accurate.

I've talked about this before, but if you're brewing a pale to light brown beer, it doesn't matter what your water source is. You will need to acidify the mash to stay under 5.6 ph. It's just a matter of how much.

 

[tracer bullet]

pH meters are not for the faint of heart. In order to rely on any readings, you have to be willing to calibrate or test the accuracy on a regular basis and the probes are prone to failure whenever they feel like it.

Certainly agreed there. It's too easy to ignore the calibration of measurement equipment, then find yourself taking action to fix the results it gives you which may not be right. This isn't limited to homebrewing!

My method, admittedly wasteful, is to take the probe out of its KCL storage, rinse it in DI water, and then dunk it a few times in the pH7 cal solution left over from the last brew. Then I dump out that "old" cal solution and refill it, and finally put the meter back in for the actual cal check. Then it's back to DI water, dunked in the old pH4 cal solution a few times, that gets poured out and refilled anew, and then it's checked. Back to the DI water one more time and then finally a mash reading. Dabbed onto a clean lab wipe in between readings too, to further minimize any carry-over.

But I brew ~ once a month and the bottles of cal solution last me a year and a half, maybe 2 years and have probably expired by then anyhow.

 

[Yesfan]

......Dabbed onto a clean lab wipe in between readings too, to further minimize any carry-over......

Link to some good cheap wipes? I do something similar, but used a paper towel or (worse) "shook it" dry between dunkings, which probably isn't good for the probe.

On another note, I use some small stainless cup for the wert sample and that sits in a larger cup of ice water to help bring the sample temperature to room temps quicker.

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes, pH measurement takes a little more effort than is expected. I have gone to tablets for the calibration solution as the liquid stuff barely lasts 9-12 months before it expires. You can learn your meter and if it acts well, you do not need to calibrate it every brew. But I do anyway.

If you repeat recipes you can eventually skip the measurements. Just keep the probe stored in proper solution between uses as that is when the thing dries out.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CY5VJGM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[tracer bullet]

Link to some good cheap wipes? I do something similar, but used a paper towel or (worse) "shook it" dry between dunkings, which probably isn't good for the probe.

On another note, I use some small stainless cup for the wert sample and that sits in a larger cup of ice water to help bring the sample temperature to room temps quicker.

https://www.amazon.com/Kimtech-Scie...ag=se&keywords=kimwipes&qid=1733504405&sr=8-5

It's a lifetime supply.

I grab a wort sample with an espresso cup, trying not to burn my fingers, and then put it into a shot glass that usually stays in the back corner of my frig. I get the sample at the end of mash, and then do the measurements a little while later after I've got it up to a boil and feel safe not babysitting it for a few minutes. As mentioned earlier it's too late to react to any mash pH issues, but I never seem to be very far off my expectations, and so I go with it.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, on brew days I keep a small bowl of ice and water on my sideboard and use a pair of tasting glasses to sample whatever I'm testing for pH or SG and chill them to 70°F before measuring...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

You can keep calibration solutions but they can definitely get cross contaminated and become less accurate.

This is known as operator error. The solutions don't cross-contaminate themselves.

 

[Kickass]

pH meters are not for the faint of heart. In order to rely on any readings, you have to be willing to calibrate or test the accuracy on a regular basis and the probes are prone to failure whenever they feel like it.

These are the exact reasons I haven’t been able to pull the trigger on one. I truly respect those who use them but at the end of the day, not for me.

 

[Bobby_M]

This is known as operator error. The solutions don't cross-contaminate themselves.

Whatever the reason, it happens and if you're not careful, you're miscalibrating and thinking you're doing the right thing. There are a lot of ways to misuse a pH meter and I just brought up one of them.

 

[Bramling Cross]

As far as calibration buffers go, I'm a huge fan of this format. Buffers are expensive and they come in a big jar that you'll never be able to use before it goes off. Those big jars are so wasteful. Using the little packets, I can refresh my buffers monthly and I don't worry (as much--I still worry!) about the reliability of my calibration buffers. I've used these for years, and stored them for years, and they seem to give me consistent, reliable information that results in beer that keeps me from thinking about buying commercial beer.

Regarding taking samples: Put three coffee mugs in your freezer. Pull a sample, maybe 20% of the mug? Enough to cover the probe is all you need. Put your sample back in the freezer and set your phone for 8min. You should have a room temp sample, maybe a bit cooler. It's okay to pulse it in the microwave for 5-10sec intervals if you forgot to set an alarm. Lordy, I know!

Things you should measure: 1) end of mash pH, 2) pre-boil/entire runnings, 3) post-boil.

For now, just record those data points. Don't start trying to bugger around with those numbers on brew day, you'll only chase your tail. Once you have an established baseline, start making adjustments on the next brew. Record those numbers and keep iterating. Eventually you'll be able to make on the fly adjustments, but you need to learn your water and recipes first. The only way you can learn that is by refraining from messing around with your pH until you have a solid baseline. I know, it's so tempting! Don't do it, just record your data for now. This summer you'll be doing amazing things with acid on the fly, if you simply record your data this winter and spring.

Don't be surprised if you find out that you need to add acid throughout the brew day. I've found this to be normal. Typically, I'm adding acid to my strike and sparge liqours, my kettle pre-boil, my kettle again at ~15 to counteract the upward pH surge brought about by late boil hops, and (more times than I'd like) to fine tune my wort as it goes into the fermenter.

The above is not applicable to black beers. They're something entirely different.

I hope you found this useful, Odie, and I wish you the best on what is sure to be a very frustrating, but very rewarding phase of your hobby. Stick with it. It *is* worth it!

 

[DavidWood2115]

I have a Milwaukee MW 102. I haven't calibrated mine in probably two years. I just checked and it's off by less than 0.1, which is plenty of accuracy for my purposes. Your mileage may vary.

 

[mabrungard]

Regarding the pH meter that the OP referenced, they are essentially throw-away devices with a likely short lifespan. That's why they're sold in multiple packs. The thing I don't like about that particular meter is that it seems to require specialized calibration solutions instead of industry-standard solutions (4.01 & 7.01).

Regarding pH calibration solutions, its really only the 10.01 solution that is subject to rapid expiration due to CO2 in the air. The 4.01 and 7.01 solutions are relatively stable and they're the only solutions you should be calibrating a brewing pH meter with. I buy the 8oz bottles and they're good for many years. I've checked the response of old solutions to the fresh solutions that I've bought and they've been virtually identical after 5 years. Don't worry too much about these solutions being expired.

Cooling your wort samples to 'room-temperature' is an important procedure for measuring wort pH accurately. I used to use glass shot glasses that were taken from the freezer just prior to use, but I found a better way. Now I use stainless steel shot glasses and a separate ice-bath. Put the hot wort in the metal shot glass and swirl the container in the ice bath while monitoring the wort temp with a thermometer. You definitely want it cooled, but not too cool. I try to target a wort temp of 20C to 25C since that's pretty much the temperature of my basement brewery and the temperature of the calibration solutions. (you do want the temperature of the calibration solutions and the cooled wort to be pretty much the same). Since I use the SE220 pH probe that comes with the Milwaukee MW-101 and 102 meters, it's small diameter probe will fit in a shot glass and the wort sample volume is pretty small and this metal shot glass cooling technique generally takes less than a minute. I have my pH reading quickly. If you use a probe with large diameter, you might need a container larger than a shot glass.

I check the calibration of my pH probe before each brew day, but I suppose that I could decrease that to every other brew without much detriment. I'd say that stretching the time between calibration to years would be pushing your luck. David is fortunate that the SE220 probe for his MW-102 is one of the most durable and reliable probes out there. If you're using a cheap probe, you're probably not going to get that sort of reliability or repeatability.