Jammed transit systems running on fumes

[Laurel]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25010939/page/2/

More riders mean lower tax revenue
Mass transit is supposed to get cars off the road, and it’s working: For the first time since 1980, the number of miles driven fell last year, from 3.014 trillion to 3.003 trillion, according to the Federal Highway Administration. The drop continued by another 2.3 percent in the first quarter of this year, the FHA said.

Steve Taubenkibel, a spokesman for Washington Metro, said, “Any time you can get more people off the roads, highways and on mass transit, it’s a win-win for everybody.”

Except when it isn’t. That’s because when gas prices go up, gas purchases go down. And while the price of a gallon of gas may soar, the tax levied on it remains the same. Less gas sold equals less tax revenue for states and municipalities.

So far this fiscal year, gas consumption is down about 3 percent in Indiana, costing the state about $12 million, state Budget Director Chris Ruhl said. That’s money that would have helped fund road construction and repair.

Even as national politicians debate suspending the federal gas tax to give drivers a break, many state officials are swinging in the opposition direction. Florida, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky and Maine have raised their gas taxes this year, while Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue vetoed a 2.9-cent increase in the state’s 18.5 cent-a-gallon tax. Meanwhile, transportation planners in Ohio last month proposed raising the gas tax by up to 40 cents more per gallon.

So, what do you think? Do you think that people choosing not to use mass transit(people buying gas) should be forced to subsidize trips for people who do use mass transit(aren't buying gas)?

Should the gas tax be increased, or should the bus fare be increased to account for the lost revenue from the very people who are riding mass transit?

 

[FlyingHorse]

I must be missing something...where does the article suggest that the gas tax should be increased to subsidize mass transit?

 

[Laurel]

I must be missing something...where does the article suggest that the gas tax should be increased to subsidize mass transit?

Gas taxes are used for roads and transit. That includes mass transit.

 

[McKBrew]

We are getting stuck in a vicious circle with no hope of escape, and I don't know what the fix is. That's why I have all of these politicians with their contradicting ideas out there to figure things out for me.

More people are riding mass transit, less are using the gas that pays for the mass transit. Should I have to pay for mass transit. I say no, because I'm not even in a position to use it because except one bus that comes on base a few times a day, I really am not in a postition to use it.

We can get in a big debate over this topic as well, but all I can say is that these inflated gas prices are not helping anyone, it's having such a negative impact on areas that you wouldn't even think gas was tied into.

 

[Evan!]

Well, your bias isn't exactly inconspicuous, judging by your narrowly-worded false dilemma there. As you yourself copy-pasted into the article, "That’s money that would have helped fund road construction and repair.", meaning that the needed tax $$ aren't necessarily "subsidizing trips for people who don't use mass transit". It very well may be, but not necessarily, and you portray it as: the money from gas tax hikes will go to mass transit. I don't see any proof of that in your article. So I don't know what you framed your dilemma that way.

Either way...I have no sympathy for the *********s in the DOT. That sector is almost like the effing waste disposal industry in NJ/NY...mobbed up, dialed in, whatever. For instance, VDOT here hands out paving contracts to private contractors in shady ways, and the public work that is done directly by VDOT workers is so slow and inefficient because, well, government is f*cked up. What happens is, in order to justify their budget for the next fiscal year, the DOT has to use up all their money from the current FY. So you'll see them either "repairing" a perfectly good road, or taking their sweet effing time on a project. Hell, anyone who lives up in NoVa knows damn well that VDOT spent like 6 years just moving dirt from one pile to the next at the I-66 widening project between Gainesville and Manasshole. Just mooooovin some dirt. Takin gatorade breaks every 15 minutes. Standing around "supervisin". VDOT is a joke...and they'll get no sympathy from me. I'm sure it's the same in a lot of other states.

Mass Transit should fund itself, OTOH, or at least fund itself most of the way. There IS something to be said for Mass Transit helping to curtail the externalities inherent in single-rider auto transportation (namely, traffic congestion and pollution).

 

[dirtymike1]

Either way...I have no sympathy for the *********s in the DOT. That sector is almost like the effing waste disposal industry in NJ/NY...mobbed up, dialed in, whatever. For instance, VDOT here hands out paving contracts to private contractors in shady ways, and the public work that is done directly by VDOT workers is so slow and inefficient because, well, government is f*cked up. What happens is, in order to justify their budget for the next fiscal year, the DOT has to use up all their money from the current FY. So you'll see them either "repairing" a perfectly good road, or taking their sweet effing time on a project. Hell, anyone who lives up in NoVa knows damn well that VDOT spent like 6 years just moving dirt from one pile to the next at the I-66 widening project between Gainesville and Manasshole. Just mooooovin some dirt. Takin gatorade breaks every 15 minutes. Standing around "supervisin". VDOT is a joke...and they'll get no sympathy from me. I'm sure it's the same in a lot of other states.

QUOTE]

Evan! I am living the dream!!! I grow up in NJ and now I live in NoVA! And yes, please tell me why last month VDOT had to tear up the road right by my office, lay down steel plates for 2 weeks, then just come back and fill ing the hole....

I don't even want to talk about the raods in NJ....

 

[Evan!]

Evan! I am living the dream!!! I grow up in NJ and now I live in NoVA! And yes, please tell me why last month VDOT had to tear up the road right by my office, lay down steel plates for 2 weeks, then just come back and fill ing the hole....

I don't even want to talk about the raods in NJ....

Well, if they had steel plates, it's always possible someone was running util lines...but even then, there are new technologies that allow horizontal boring to avoid tearing up roads, so who knows?

More than likely, though, they had some $$ to burn, and if they don't burn through it, the state will give them less next year. It's a terribly gross incentive to waste $$...

 

[Laurel]

Evan! I'm not suggesting that all of the money in the gas tax goes to mass transit, as I know all of the slow road construction is funded by that money as well. In Washington state at least, 76% or something along those lines of the transportation budget goes to mass transit, which accounts for(a year or 2 ago) 3% of all trips. That may just be me, but it seems a little skewed.