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Jamil Show Belgian Golden Strong Ale

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mrfocus

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I just had a question for people who may have some of Jamil's books.
On his 12-31-97 Jamil Show he shares his recipe for Belgian Golden Strong Ale.
He says to add 3lbs Cane or Beet sugar, but does not mention when.
I figure it could either be 5 minutes before the end of the boil, or even once most of the fermentation is done (so that maltotriose doesn't fall out of favor by the yeast).
Can anyone (who optionally has the book) pitch in their opinion on this?

Thanks.
 

Beerrific

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I would add it towards the end of the boil, doesn't matter exactly when. On that beer, I see no reason to add it once fermentation has begun,
 
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mrfocus

mrfocus

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jbreiding said:
i would add it around 15 minutes till the end of the boil. which book is this?
I don't know, he doesn't say it's in one of his books, I just figure that if he shares it on his show it must already be in a book.
 

Gabe

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I have his new book in which he talks about adding Bel candi sugar around the 20 min mark. I always add it around then so I know it is mixed in well . Also you will want to stir the boil so you don't scorch the wort when adding that much sugar.
 

Brew-boy

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He does say when to add it, I listened to the show twice. 15 mins till the end of the boil you add it. Beet sugar would be best look on the back of the sugar bags.
This is my next brew as soon as UPS delivers my saaz hops.
 

brewt00l

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As far as I am aware, if you are using refined white sugar it generally won't matter if it's beet or cane since it will typically be refined to the point of leaving no flavors behind. I know all the refined white sugar in my supermarket is cane.
 

sirsloop

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I'd add it in a couple minutes before the end of boil... just so it dissolves. If you add it in after the wort cools it may not all dissolve. If you add it early it'll darken a little... like any sugars you add early.
 

CBBaron

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brewt00l said:
As far as I am aware, if you are using refined white sugar it generally won't matter if it's beet or cane since it will typically be refined to the point of leaving no flavors behind. I know all the refined white sugar in my supermarket is cane.
I understood there to be a slight difference in the sugars available between cane and beet sugar though I cannot taste the difference myself.
Our grocery's have Domino (cane) and Pioneer (beet) sugar. The beet sugar is pretty obvious because the bag has the state of Michigan on it, and sugar cane does not grow that far north but sugar beets are a common crop in Michigan.

Craig
 

brewt00l

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CBBaron said:
I understood there to be a slight difference in the sugars available between cane and beet sugar though I cannot taste the difference myself.
Our grocery's have Domino (cane) and Pioneer (beet) sugar. The beet sugar is pretty obvious because the bag has the state of Michigan on it, and sugar cane does not grow that far north but sugar beets are a common crop in Michigan.

Craig

IIRC I had read something to the effect of what I posted in Designing Great Beers..I'll have to check when I unpack from moving this past weekend.

I haven't seen Pioneer around this way.
 

meyers.markg

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Has anyone tried Jamil's recipe? I'm about to brew it tomorrow and I want make sure it'll be as good as I'm hoping. What spurred my paranoia was that I drank a 10.5% Piraat (which is a dry strong golden belgian ale) and it was cider city... gross. I'm just worried that with the 3 lbs of sugar I might get cidery off flavors. I loooooove Duvel, so I would like for someone to quell my fears or stear me clear of this recipe.
 

coyote

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Bob Kauffman's "Striking Gold" recipe in BYO is a good one.

he uses 2 lbs. of various sugars in his.
 

Aspera

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having never seen the show, I'll go out on a limb and say that the guy obviously isn't a mead maker, drinker, or even a taster of such rarified spirits. He can keep his boiled cane trimmings......I prefer the bees knees in my Belgians. Have you tried making a honey lambic?
 

barrooze

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I know this reply is way late, but I brewed JZ's strong golden recipe and actually added the 3 lb beet sugar (he recommends beet over cane) in the manner Jamil described in his Tripel show. I made a thick syrup and added it during the fermentation at about 65% attenuation. With this process I managed to get about 91% attenuation. Final product is bone dry and very tasty!
 

Toilet Rocker

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I know this reply is way late, but I brewed JZ's strong golden recipe and actually added the 3 lb beet sugar (he recommends beet over cane) in the manner Jamil described in his Tripel show. I made a thick syrup and added it during the fermentation at about 65% attenuation. With this process I managed to get about 91% attenuation. Final product is bone dry and very tasty!
Hey Barrooze, I am about to add sugar to the primary tonight of a tripel I brewed over the weekend. Can you let me know what your ratio of water to sugar was?

Thanks,
Rich
 

barrooze

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I believe I added the 3 lb of sugar to a quart of boiling water. Once all the sugar was added I set a timer for ten minites and stirred until completely dissolved. The timer was to help evaporate some of the water, just to thicken up the syrup. Worked really well. Got about 91% attenuation!
 

Toilet Rocker

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Great thanks a lot. 91% is very impressive. Which strain of yeast did you use? And when you added it to the carboy, I assume it was challenging to add it without splashing a lot. Yea?
 

barrooze

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I used WLP570 for my Strong Golden Ale. About to brew a Tripel also using WLP575.

When I added the syrup to the carboy, I sanitized a kitchen funnel and used my short (~1 foot long) 1/2" tube attached to the end of the funnel and had the other end sticking in my beer. Zero splashing. During Jamil's Tripel show, he stated that there was probably no issue just pouring in the sugar. I'm sure it'll be fine no matter what you end up doing. Good luck!
 

Toilet Rocker

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Thanks. I reduced 2.5# of sugar in 20 oz of water, chilled it, then added it slowly to the carboy. oh, i had used the 3787 for this tripel. fermentation took off like a madman. the airlock fill with foam and the blowoff hose is nearly 1/3 of the way full of foam. wow that was fast!
 

barrooze

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Wow, fermentation already from the sugar? Nice! It's odd. I heard a ton of ppl having huge fermentations with these Belgian strains but even after a 3000mL starter, I didn't have a big fermentation at all. Just a regular fermentation. What size carboy are you using? I've got mine in a 6.5 gallon going on day 27. :)
 

Toilet Rocker

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I started with about 2/3 of a growler and the yeast overflowed twice before I even got the stir plate in action. Seems to be a wildly active strain! Inam using a 6G carboy now
 

barrooze

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Bottled yesterday. FG: 1.004. Maybe someone can help me out with estimating OG when making late sugar additions.

I brewed and got an OG of 1.070. I fermented and waited until the SG was 1.024 (about 65% AA) and pitched about 1 quart of syrup in which 3lb of sugar was dissolved. A new reading showed that I had a new SG of 1.046. So by adding the sugar I gained 0.022 in SG. Do I just add that 22 pts to my OG and find alcohol by using that new calculated OG?
 

2bluewagons

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That method should be fine, but that 1.046 assumes that you mixed up the thick syrup very well with the much thinner fermenting beer. An easier way would be to use ppg values for sugar (46 I believe) and go from there. You added 3 lb of sugar and added a quart or so of liquid volume to your carboy, so if you had a good number on the original volume before that addition, you just multiply 3*46 and divide by the total volume (original + 1 qt) and that would give you the increase in OG caused by the addition.

I brewed the Jamil Golden Strong recipe a while ago and added the sugar to the boil (5-10 min I think). I had a good starter of WLP 570 and followed the fermentation temp ramping given in the episode and also saw 91% AA, from 1.076 to 1.007.

There was some cidery component when the beer was young, but at right about 3-4 months this beer was so delicious. After that the bitterness faded a bit too quickly. 9 months in the bottle and it's now on the sweeter side. I will brew this again and might go for a little less sugar as well as more bittering.
 

barrooze

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Excellent. Thanks for the info. I look forward to drinking this one!:mug:
 

doublebogey10

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Dug up this thread from a search. Have been looking at brewing a big Belgian. Below are two recipes from Jamil on Belgian Golden Strong Ale. The first is from his Brewing Classic Styles Book. Second is from March/April 2011 edition of BYO mag. Grain bills and hops are different, yet same profile on each. What gives?

Jamil’s Brewing Classic Styles recipe for Golden Strong Ale
OG 1072
FG 1007
IBU 32
Color 3 SRM
ABV 8.5

11# Cont Pilsner
3# Cane sugar
2.25oz Czech Saaz
Wyeast 1388
Mash at 149* for 90

March/April 2011 edition of BYO. Jamil’s piece on Belgian Golden Strong Ale in Style Profile
OG 1072
FG 1007
IBU 32
Color 3 SRM
ABV 8.5

9.92# Cont Pilsner
2.47# Cane sugar
1.87oz Czech Saaz
Wyeast 1388
Mash at 149* for 90
 

barrooze

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Well, I'd have to say that the difference has to do with differences in mash efficiency and batch size. I know BCS uses 6 gallon batch size and 70% mash efficiency. I think BYO uses 65% mash efficiency. I'm not sure what size batch this recipe is for. If you want to brew one of these, I did the BCS recipe and it turned out great. Basically, if you know your systems efficiency, just use enough grain and sugar to get the percentages and IBUs stated in the recipes. Really focus on fermentation temp control and pitch using really healthy yeast and the proper amount of yeast. Good luck!!
 
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