Quantcast

Issues with kviek

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
226
Location
Lansing
I know not usually a problem and maybe this has more to do with my recipe or process but I used a full pack of hornidal on a neipa recently and it came in higher than beersmith projection. I mashed this on accident at 150 was supposed to be 153, pitched it at 85deg, and I use a heat pad on the fermenter to raise the temp with a blanket around it, tested the wort and it was mid 90’s so I know it’s temp is fine. Fermentstion stopped on day 2 and the yeast completely dropped as evidenced by the cake on the bottom of the fermenter. So I left the heat pad on it and would occasionally swirl the carboy. So today is day 5, took my fg reading before I cool the csrboy to dryhop and got a fg read8ng of 1.018 when per beersmith the fg was supposed to be 1.012 and frankly with a full pack of hornidal fermented hot with a mash temp of 150 I’d have expected the fg to be much lower. Any ideas here. I’m gonna retest my thermometer but last time I did it was only a degree off so still that’s a mash of 151deg. I’m aerating the wort to for 60sec with my o2 wand And the grain bill is 2 row, wheat, munich and oats so it’s a very fermentable bill. Oh OG was 1.077 fell short of my 1.081 goal so maybe I need to go back to making starters although from what I’ve read that shouldn’t be necessary with kviek.
 

BrewerBrad82

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
1,344
Reaction score
1,178
Location
Minneapolis
Based on your OG and FG, that corresponds to ~77% attenuation. The listed attenuation from Omega is 75-82%, so you are right in there. I would suspect the attenuation numbers in Beersmith could be off. 1.012 is really low for an OG of 1.077
 
OP
O

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
226
Location
Lansing
Based on your OG and FG, that corresponds to ~77% attenuation. The listed attenuation from Omega is 75-82%, so you are right in there. I would suspect the attenuation numbers in Beersmith could be off. 1.012 is really low for an OG of 1.077
How would one go about achieving 85% attenuation. And yes I was prob ill advised for changing the attenuation to 85% in beersmith.
 

BrewerBrad82

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
1,344
Reaction score
1,178
Location
Minneapolis
How would one go about achieving 85% attenuation. And yes I was prob ill advised for changing the attenuation to 85% in beersmith.
If you are looking for that high of attenuation with that particular yeast strain, you will likely have to substitute a small portion of your base malt for a simple sugar (dextrose or sucrose). Since the sugar is 100% fermentable, it will cause the overall attenuation of the batch to increase.
 
OP
O

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
226
Location
Lansing
If you are looking for that high of attenuation with that particular yeast strain, you will likely have to substitute a small portion of your base malt for a simple sugar (dextrose or sucrose). Since the sugar is 100% fermentable, it will cause the overall attenuation of the batch to increase.
Ok that’s what I thought but I don’t want it to dry out a neipa. So I’ll just adjust the attenuation to 77% in beersmith. I just listened to a podcast with Scott Janis and he said at thier brewery they intentionally finish the neipas at 1.020.
 

wepeeler

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
744
Reaction score
1,056
Location
CT
Couple of things to keep in mind: Kveik prefers to be underpitched. Your actual mash temp might have been a bit higher than you measured. Mash length can affect fermentability as well. BeerSmith isn't the end all when predicting FG. It's usually very close, but if you use grain that isn't in BeerSmith, or BeerSmith doesn't have accurate info on the grain, the prediction can only be so accurate. I just did a 1.083 beer and it finished in 24 hours. I pitched a tablespoon into 6 gallons and fermented at 95F. Finished at 1.020. BS predicted 1.018, but there were a few variables. I mashed for way longer than intended. I thought it would result in a more fermentable wort, but 1.020 is right in the attenuation % for Kveik.
 
OP
O

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
226
Location
Lansing
Couple of things to keep in mind: Kveik prefers to be underpitched. Your actual mash temp might have been a bit higher than you measured. Mash length can affect fermentability as well. BeerSmith isn't the end all when predicting FG. It's usually very close, but if you use grain that isn't in BeerSmith, or BeerSmith doesn't have accurate info on the grain, the prediction can only be so accurate. I just did a 1.083 beer and it finished in 24 hours. I pitched a tablespoon into 6 gallons and fermented at 95F. Finished at 1.020. BS predicted 1.018, but there were a few variables. I mashed for way longer than intended. I thought it would result in a more fermentable wort, but 1.020 is right in the attenuation % for Kveik.
So I always mash for 90 min. And last time I used hornidal on a beer same size as yours I tried the underpitching method and used 2tbsp into 6 gal and it stalled out at 1.030 So I vowed never do that again. And I did same as I always do pitched at 90 and heated it up, aerated 60 sec, mashed 90 min. I’m still confused as to why it stalled when the underpitching method seems popular for kviek.
 

wepeeler

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
744
Reaction score
1,056
Location
CT
So I always mash for 90 min. And last time I used hornidal on a beer same size as yours I tried the underpitching method and used 2tbsp into 6 gal and it stalled out at 1.030 So I vowed never do that again. And I did same as I always do pitched at 90 and heated it up, aerated 60 sec, mashed 90 min. I’m still confused as to why it stalled when the underpitching method seems popular for kviek.
I made a starter with the pack before pitching. I've read that subsequent generations of Kveik work better than straight from the pack. Maybe that's why? I also use 2-3x the amount of yeast nutrient for both the starter and the boil. I aerate by dumping from above waist high into the fermenter and then rock it back a forth for MAYBE a minute. Kveik is notoriously ok with being stressed, and with such a wide fermentation range, it should be relatively hassle free.

I've done over 100 batches of beer and only had 1 stalled fermentation. That was for an imperial stout (1.100 OG). I mashed too high, and I reused yeast without making another starter.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
4,198
Reaction score
6,919
Location
Albany
So I always mash for 90 min. And last time I used hornidal on a beer same size as yours I tried the underpitching method and used 2tbsp into 6 gal and it stalled out at 1.030 So I vowed never do that again. And I did same as I always do pitched at 90 and heated it up, aerated 60 sec, mashed 90 min. I’m still confused as to why it stalled when the underpitching method seems popular for kviek.
What are you measuring fg with? Hydrometer or refractometer? I’ve never heard of any kviek yeast ever stalling at 1.030. I’ve literally used a tsp of slurry in 5 gal batch at 1.072 multiple times and have finished 1.012 almost every time. Probably used Hornindal 10 times or more
 
OP
O

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
226
Location
Lansing
What are you measuring fg with? Hydrometer or refractometer? I’ve never heard of any kviek yeast ever stalling at 1.030. I’ve literally used a tsp of slurry in 5 gal batch at 1.072 multiple times and have finished 1.012 almost every time. Probably used Hornindal 10 times or more
Oh I’m using my hydrometer. In the appropriate temp range it’s calibrated for.
 
OP
O

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
226
Location
Lansing
I made a starter with the pack before pitching. I've read that subsequent generations of Kveik work better than straight from the pack. Maybe that's why? I also use 2-3x the amount of yeast nutrient for both the starter and the boil. I aerate by dumping from above waist high into the fermenter and then rock it back a forth for MAYBE a minute. Kveik is notoriously ok with being stressed, and with such a wide fermentation range, it should be relatively hassle free.

I've done over 100 batches of beer and only had 1 stalled fermentation. That was for an imperial stout (1.100 OG). I mashed too high, and I reused yeast without making another starter.
so I use an aeration wand with pure 02 to aerate but I don’t use yeast nutrient I stopped years ago cuz it didnt really seem to be doing anything but back then I was always making starters for yeast like wlp001, 1318 etc for neipas So I never worried because they always hit their projected fg.
 

OldDogBrewing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
349
Reaction score
241
What are you measuring fg with? Hydrometer or refractometer? I’ve never heard of any kviek yeast ever stalling at 1.030. I’ve literally used a tsp of slurry in 5 gal batch at 1.072 multiple times and have finished 1.012 almost every time. Probably used Hornindal 10 times or more
It's actually possible, I did it on purpose on a IS, it turns out that in that beer it flocked really poorly, so it may be related

Although getting more attenuation is easy, step mashing plus adjunct sugar additions should make a fairly dry beer
 
Top