ISO; water profile fruity and hazy IPA

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BRAAF

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Hi Folks,

I'm looking for a water profile that fits a NE IPA, fruity and hazy.
This might be the 1.000th topic about this subject but i can't find a specific answer to my question. I read a lot of stuff on the internet but it's mostly 2 year old information.

Thanks in advance!


Cheers,
 

mabrungard

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Water profile doesn't have a lot to do with haze, but creating water with low sulfate and high chloride does increase the perception of fullness and wetness that will promote the juiciness that you're looking for. About 150 ppm chloride and 75 ppm sulfate works well.
 

PlinyTheMiddleAged

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The values that Martin provides above are exactly what I've used with NE IPAs with great success. I've also reversed the values (150 ppm sulfate and 75 ppm chloride) but didn't like it nearly as well.
 

MaltMaker

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In addition to what Martin says, I like to get my sodium up to about 40 ppm though I have gone as high as 50 ppm. Seems to add a certain something to the flavor. I'll keep my sulfate @ 75ppm and my chloride @120ppm.
 
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BRAAF

BRAAF

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So, if my target is this (see attachment) it would be ok?
BeerSmith marks the chloride/sulfate as Very Malty..

Schermafbeelding 2017-03-27 om 15.58.45.png
 

MaltMaker

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Doesn't look bad but the calcium is on the high end and most of that magnesium isn't needed. You'll need some acid to neutralize alkalinity though. What type of water are you starting with? RO/DI, tap, spring?

My profile is generally:

Ca: 81 ppm
Mg: 0 ppm
Na: 40 ppm
S04: 75 ppm
Cl2: 150 ppm
 
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BRAAF

BRAAF

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Doesn't look bad but the calcium is on the high end. You'll need some acid to neutralize alkalinity though. Are you starting with RO or DI water?

My profile is generally:
Ca: 81 ppm
Mg: 0 ppm
Na: 40 ppm
S04: 75 ppm
Cl2: 150 ppm
I use just tapwater (from the Netherlands). And BeerSmith already gave me the weights of the salts that I need. Will use Lactic Acid to correct my pH (aiming for 5.3).
 

MaltMaker

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Next time try cutting your tap water with RO to get that calcium and magnesium down and perhaps try targeting 5.4 pH.

Plug your numbers in Brun' Water and see what it says. Water calculators don't generally agree.
 
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BRAAF

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Next time try cutting your tap water with RO to get that calcium and magnesium down and perhaps try targeting 5.4 pH.

Plug your numbers in Brun' Water and see what it says. Water calculators don't generally agree.
This is the water where I start with;

Schermafbeelding 2017-03-27 om 16.24.36.png
 

MaltMaker

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Yea, I would cut that 50% with RO or DI water. Using kosher salt to add chloride until 40 ppm sodium will help get that calcium in range. You'll still need to neutralize a fair bit of alkalinity so perhaps try Phosphoric Acid instead of Lactic. Even though you're probably not at the taste threshold of Lactic.
 

mabrungard

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In addition to what Martin says, I like to get my sodium up to about 40 ppm though I have gone as high as 50 ppm.
There is merit to bumping sodium. At low levels it is not salty and it enhances the perception of sweetness. I almost always include a bit of sodium in all my brews, but not at the levels mentioned above. The only reason I haven't is that I'm OK with what level I've got. I should be more adventurous!

By the way, its easy to test out what sodium will do to your beer by dosing table salt into a glass of beer. A tenth of a gram in 16 oz of beer will boost sodium by about 80 ppm and chloride by about 120 ppm. That is a little steep, so I recommend that you measure out a tenth (that's as low as some scales go) and then visually divide that amount in half and add to the glass. Around 40 ppm sodium should produce a notable difference. If you like it, add the other half to see what it does for you. You've only risked a pint!! Be sure to mix it up well and allow it to dissolve before making your assessment.
 
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BRAAF

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Will it be a problem if i add my brewing salts during the mash? Or should I add everything before?

Due a tight schedule I got a small problem with the mail. My brewing salts arrive tomorrow between 10:30 and 12:30 in the morning. We start mashing around 09:00...

I will be adding Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium sulfate and Calcium chloride.
 

MaltMaker

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Adding water salts to a mash does not invite even distribution.

Adding water salts to a mash that has been mashing goes against the raison d'etre of the water salts to begin with.

Adding them to the strike water is preferred.
 

mabrungard

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It is very difficult to uniformly distribute salts and acid added to the mash. As mentioned, you are FAR better off adding them to the water and mixing them thoroughly to assure that they distributed.
 

buresh_matt

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Water profile doesn't have a lot to do with haze, but creating water with low sulfate and high chloride does increase the perception of fullness and wetness that will promote the juiciness that you're looking for. About 150 ppm chloride and 75 ppm sulfate works well.
If I'm brewing a 5gal batch or NEIPA with total water of 7.1. How much of each do I use? I know this is a very old thread but there just ins't a lot on this since the NEIPA isn't a standard profile yet. Can you please help me calculate that 2:1 Chl/sulfate? I'll be doing my first distilled water brew tomorrow.
 

Silver_Is_Money

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If I'm brewing a 5gal batch or NEIPA with total water of 7.1. How much of each do I use? I know this is a very old thread but there just ins't a lot on this since the NEIPA isn't a standard profile yet. Can you please help me calculate that 2:1 Chl/sulfate? I'll be doing my first distilled water brew tomorrow.
In reality it is quite honestly impossible to calculate unless you know the precise current (yet continually moving target) hydration state of your lot of calcium chloride prills. Calcium Chloride is continually assimilating water from exposure to the atmosphere (air). It's percent purity as CaCl2 is continually going down as time passes, and to the degree that such exposure is not regulated.

The dihydrate state (for example) has ~24.5% less CaCl2 than does the anhydride (or anhydrous) state. At somewhere around the heptahydrate or hexahydrate state CaCl2 becomes a soggy goo. But before that it pretty much looks just like it is expected to look.
 
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ScrewyBrewer

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If I'm brewing a 5gal batch or NEIPA with total water of 7.1. How much of each do I use? I know this is a very old thread but there just ins't a lot on this since the NEIPA isn't a standard profile yet. Can you please help me calculate that 2:1 Chl/sulfate? I'll be doing my first distilled water brew tomorrow.
I target a 1.5 : 1 ratio of chloride to sulfate.
 
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