Is this Mash calculator correct??

[fishnfever]

I am about to do my first all grain brew this weekend. It's an Irish Red from Northen Brewer. The total grain wieght is 8.74 lbs. I used this Mash calculater Mash and Sparge Water Calculator ::: Brew365 - Homebrewing Recipes and Articles

I am getting a total water amount of 8.50 gallons for the total amount to use.
(mash and sparge)

Does this look rite? Just seams like a lot of water to me but this is also my first ag.

 

[BreckBastion]

I have been using it and it works for me. Just have to know your equipment a little.

 

[WorryWort]

If you want a 5 gallon batch that seems like a bit much. 6 gallons might be ok.

Depends on your system, but your going to have losses along the way - to grain (aborption), evaporation, and hops. Which this calculator takes into account.

Even so, if I work backwards from 8.5 gallons, the most water you could lose to the grain through absorption is about 1 gallon. Many people target .1 gallon per pound. If so you'd probably collect about 7.5 gallons into the kettle.

You'd need a 13% evaporation rate to lose another gallon, assuming you boiled an hour. And 13-15% is generally a pretty rippin' boil.

Then you'd have 6.5 gallons in the kettle. And you'd probably lose very little to hops. Like a quart max assuming it's a standard irish red. Therefore, you're going to have a lot of beer for a 5 gallon batch.

I make 6 gallon batches and use about 8.5 gallons.

On another note, properly measuring volumes and accounting for losses contributed to the biggest gains in efficiency and the consistency of my efficiency of anything I've done.

 

[malkore]

That sounds correct for 5 gallons. 8lbs of grain is going to absorb almost 2 gallons of water by itself, which drops you to a potential 6.5 gallons coming out of the MLT.

considering dead space and evaporation during boiling, you should get 5 gallons into primary.

 

[WorryWort]

That sounds correct for 5 gallons. 8lbs of grain is going to absorb almost 2 gallons of water by itself, which drops you to a potential 6.5 gallons coming out of the MLT.

considering dead space and evaporation during boiling, you should get 5 gallons into primary.

this may not be true for his system. though it may be. mine would not absorb that much.

the only way to know is to try. better to use too much your first few times than too little though. worst case you miss your OG by a few points. you can fix it easily though.

make sure you measure how much you actually get from your first runnings. then you won't have to guess.

 

[fishnfever]

Thanks for the replies!! I will be sure and take good notes. My mash Tun is a 10 gallon round rubbermaid cooler. How would I fix my O.G if needed?

 

[wilserbrewer]

How would I fix my O.G if needed?

If you feel you have collected too much wort, increase boil time. If og is low and you are at desired volume, add DME or LME to adjust.

If you are at all close, then just RDWHAHB.

 

[malkore]

this may not be true for his system. though it may be. mine would not absorb that much.

the only way to know is to try. better to use too much your first few times than too little though. worst case you miss your OG by a few points. you can fix it easily though.

make sure you measure how much you actually get from your first runnings. then you won't have to guess.

so you are claiming your system causes the grain to absorb less water than the rest of us?

deadspace may be different, but crushed 2-row is going to consistantly absorb the same quantity of water during the dough-in.

 

[fishnfever]

Well I think I screwed up. My wort gravity (pre boil) was 1.030. Is this a total loss. I used all 8.5 gallons. I lost 5 degrees in my mash tun (maybe to much head space?) I think I am going to make a cover out of styrafaom (sp) to float on top off my mash. I also under shoot my temp in my mash and heated up another half gallon or so of water to get the temps rite.

So did I ruin my first attempt at ag?


*EDIT* I think I know what I did wrong, I was taking my readings from the brew kettle (collected wort) not the runnings. Should I have took the gravity reading from the runnings (out of the hose) instead of the kettle. On a good not I just checked my gravity with still a half hour of boil time left anf my o.g. was 1.044 and the target is 1.045. So maybe I got lucky on this first ag batch.

 

[Jeffro]

What's the temprature of your sample?

 

[davesrose]

So did I ruin my first attempt at ag?

It's very hard to ruin beer I wouldn't go by volume of water to determine how much to mash/sparge though. That water estimate is just that....there's always going to be some give and take over the amount of space your equipment takes up and slight other variables. With most my average ales, I wind up needing closer to 10 gallons just because I fly sparge. With time you'll be able to guage what kind of consistancy you like your mash to be.

How much total wort volume did you have when you pitched your yeast? If you got close to your 5 gallon batch target, then that aspect is fine. You don't say what style beer you have, or what the expected gravity was, so I don't know how off 1.030 is. What was it before pitching the yeast? If it was way off from your expected, you could always add DME. Also, if it was way off that means it's your efficiency that you have to work on improving. Grain crush is usually a big culprit.....if you erred on more water to get a 153 degree mash temp, that actually should mantain a good efficiency.

 

[davesrose]

On a good not I just checked my gravity with still a half hour of boil time left anf my o.g. was 1.044 and the target is 1.045. So maybe I got lucky on this first ag batch.

I'm confused. Normally estimated gravity is for the OG that is present right before you pitch the yeast. That's when you should be sure to make sure your sample is 60 degrees so that you get a good estimate of your pre-fermented gravity. If you're taking readings during or before boil, you'd expect them to be lower then the estimated gravity (as when wort is boiling, water gets evaporated, but sugars stay around and raise the gravity). So what was your gravity reading before pitching the yeast? Sounds like you were either right on the money or maybe even a little higher then brewhouse efficiency. So no, doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong but getting TOO paranoid about gravity readings :cross:

 

[fishnfever]

Okay let me clear things up. I did an Irish red ale kit from NorthenBrewer. After reading this on the northernbrewers mashing and sparging "crash course"

Here is the kit, Irish Red Ale All Grain Kit -- Inventory Sheet



"Sparging. Open the valve on the sparge water tank to gently disperse the 170° F sparge water over the top of the grain bed. As in recirculating, do not allow the grain bed to go dry until sparging is complete. Avoid sparge water temperatures in excess of 175° F, as this promotes the extraction of tannins from the grain and leads to a harsh, astringent flavor in the finished beer. Stop sparging once you have collected an adequate amount of wort, or when the runoff reaches a specific gravity of 1.008-1.012." Wich can be read here,


Mashing and Sparging

I infact took my readings from the wort that I collect from mash tun. Should I have took a sample from the runnings coming out of the hose from the mash tun that I collected my wort instead of the collected wort ( this is what I really need cleared up)

On a good note the end result was great. I hit 1.050 with an efficiency of 79%. I just wish I can say I did it with out the luck.

Temp was 73 and used a ATC refractometer. Yes I also confirmed this with a hydrometer aswell (temp fixed with beersmith). There was a 0.001 difrence between the two.

 

[Bobby_M]

so you are claiming your system causes the grain to absorb less water than the rest of us?

deadspace may be different, but crushed 2-row is going to consistantly absorb the same quantity of water during the dough-in.

My typical absorption rate is .125 gallons (or half quart if you like) per pound. That's one gallon of loss in 8 pounds of grain. If you're losing more than that, it's probably dead space.

 

[davesrose]

On a good note the end result was great. I hit 1.050 with an efficiency of 79%. I just wish I can say I did it with out the luck.

Yes, it is great...and with the Northern Brewer AG kits, since they factor lower efficiency for everyone, I always just relax and have a few home brews while brewing one of their kits

When it comes to runnings, that tid bit that you quote is for fly sparging. I take it you got one of their AG equipment kits with a fly sparger? That's actually what I use. What they are refering to is at the end of the sparge.....ideally, you should stop sparging if your gravity runnings start hitting 1.010 (I'm lazy so I take a few readings without cooling....I just try doing some basic math conversions to make sure my final runnings aren't getting far below 1.010). But fly sparging is just like a percolating coffee maker. When you first hit it with hot water and start draining, those runnings are the heaviest in sugars (or with coffee, that would be your most bitter part). As more water flows, the sugars start thining out as all your grains are getting rinsed of their sugars. The train of thought is you stop getting good sugars by 1.010, and you start getting more tannins if you continue to fly sparge after that. But honestly, my first few batches, I didn't know about this....and my beers seemed fine by just going with what I thought my pre-boil volume should be.

One thing I should stress is that it's best to stop sparging at your estimated pre-boil volume. Today I brewed my rye IPA, which has a OG of 1.080. I ended the sparge right at what my pre-boil volume should be (with my setup, I tend to sparge 6 gallons). So my final runnings were actually above 1.012....not surprising for a higher gravity beer.

Anyways, this is the main reason your final runnings have a lower gravity then your initial ones (most of the sugars have already been sparged). Your pre-boil gravity will also be lower then your post-boil gravity as volume decreases.

So barring your confusion about gravity readings....it looks like there was no luck involved. You did great!

 

[fishnfever]

davesrose,

This is my set up. I did copy the NorthenBrewer set up but didn't pay the same price . I did buy the sparge arm.

Thanks for clearing it up for me. I know now I should have been taking my readings from the drain of the cooler and not the collected word.

All and all every thing turned out ok. It is bubbling away as I type :rockin:

 

[WorryWort]

so you are claiming your system causes the grain to absorb less water than the rest of us?

deadspace may be different, but crushed 2-row is going to consistantly absorb the same quantity of water during the dough-in.

Well, I'm not trying to be argumentative but yes, I suppose I am - My system loses only .1 gallon to absorption. Denny's website says the same for him. More accurately I mean all loses that occur inside the mash tun, mostly absorption but deadspace too.

I know this is true for me because I've measured it. My measurements and assumptions are all very accurate because my sparge runoff stops precisely when I've collected my boil volume.


I'm just saying he needs to measure his results after he does it, that's all. He can go ahead an use 8.5 gallons. But for me, with that amount of grain, it would be too much water. Plain and simple. It's not even my opinion, but a fact of my system.

If you lose more than that I don't know why. Perhaps it is because of extra deadspace that I don't have. But I simply don't lose more than .1 gallon/lb.

 

[adamjab19]

I used that mash calculator and I missed my mash temp by 8 degrees! I know I should have heated the tun up for alittle longer and with more water but damn! Next time I am going a few degrees above what they suggested as well.