Is there a reason why....

[mhermetz]

Is there a reason why you can't do away with the Batch sparge, Fly sparge....etc. for simply putting in 7 gallons of water into your MLT to extract 6g of wort? would the effeciency be horrible?

I figure it's the same as the BIAB method except your doing without the bag and mashing in your MLT -cooler setup.

I have a 10g cooler I use for my Mash... it should be enough volumn to hold roughly 10lbs of Grains and roughly 7 gallons of water. It would be tight but it would get the job done.

thoughts?

 

[HSM]

Some people actually love it:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/i-love-no-sparge-brewing-140972/

 

[HSM]

No Sparge Brewing

As described by John Palmer in his BYO article “Skip the Sparge” (May-June 2003), a no sparge brew has the entire volume of “sparge” water added to the mash and stirred in before any runoff has taken place. Even though additional water has been added, since it’s been added to the mash before runoff has begun, we can more properly think of it as a mash infusion, rather than a sparge addition...hence the name “no-sparge”. This method is the easiest way to mash, but at the expense of poor extraction, typically 50%. The advantage, though, is that because all the sugar from the mash is in solution from the agitation of adding the water, lauter design has minimal effect.

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

 

[mhermetz]

50% extraction....hum. That might be an issue.

Sacc is using a RIM system aswell. I'm hoping to just throw everything into the MLT let it sit for 60min and drain. If that will only get me 50% effiecency that just plain sucks.

I'm failing to see the difference between this and BIAB though, and doesn't BIAB acheive 65-75% effiecency?

 

[shortyjacobs]

50% extraction....hum. That might be an issue.

Sacc is using a RIM system aswell. I'm hoping to just throw everything into the MLT let it sit for 60min and drain. If that will only get me 50% effiecency that just plain sucks.

I'm failing to see the difference between this and BIAB though, and doesn't BIAB acheive 65-75% effiecency?

When I did BIAB, I always did a "sparge" step where I dunked the grain bag into hot water to rinse the grains.

Sparging rinses sugars off the grains....If you are washing a glass, and you have the option between using 1L of soapy water, or 0.5L soapy water and rinse with 0.5L clean water, or 0.33L soapy water and two rinses with 0.33L clean water each, which do you think will result in the least soap left in the glass?

Same idea with mashing/sparging... you want to leave the least sugar left in the mashtun...cuz that means the most sugar left in your wort.

 

[mhermetz]

so would there be any sort of issue with mashing with 2 quarts/ pound and then simply sparging once @ 168?

I have 2 kettles but It would be nice if I could stop using my moms pot and stick with only my blingman.

 

[AnOldUR]

Not sure that the guys with the RIMS are technically no-sparge brewing. Sparging is rinsing and by re-circulating they are rinsing the bed with lower gravity wort with the result being getting more sugars into solution and raising the gravity. It's more of a thin mash fly sparge.

What you are proposing is a very thin mash ratio and I don’t know how this would work. True no-sparge is adding the remaining volume of hot liquor after the mash is complete and draining the tun once. The third paragraph of this link confirms what’s in the Denny and Palmer articles and defines what no-sparge is.

As described by John Palmer in his BYO article “Skip the Sparge” (May-June 2003), a no sparge brew has the entire volume of “sparge” water added to the mash and stirred in before any runoff has taken place. Even though additional water has been added, since it’s been added to the mash before runoff has begun, we can more properly think of it as a mash infusion, rather than a sparge addition...hence the name “no-sparge”. This method is the easiest way to mash, but at the expense of poor extraction, typically 50%. The advantage, though, is that because all the sugar from the mash is in solution from the agitation of adding the water, lauter design has minimal effect.

 

[AnOldUR]

50% extraction....hum. That might be an issue.

YMMV, but I have switch to the Palmer no-spage method for my last few batches and depending on gravity, I've gotten between 65% and 78% pre-boil efficiency.

 

[bbrim]

I did what you are thinking of doing on a couple batches as a bit of an experiment. I did mash out, I ran the mash at around 1.5qt:lbs and then added the remaining water to mash out. The first time I did it was an Imperial Stout with extract to reach the gravity I was shooting for. I hit 69% on that one. Later I hit 71% on a pale ale, I know my pH is a touch high and I didn't make an adjustment so this accounts for some of the loss in efficiency. I did two other beers this way, a Vienna Lager and a Brown Porter with both hitting roughly 75% eff. Normally 78% is the lowest I hit with a fly sparge, and 85% is the highest I hit. What I would say is to be sure you mash out, and count on a loss of efficiency of at least 5% but probably not more than 10% if you hit your temps and mash out.

 

[shortyjacobs]

so would there be any sort of issue with mashing with 2 quarts/ pound and then simply sparging once @ 168?

I have 2 kettles but It would be nice if I could stop using my moms pot and stick with only my blingman.

Sure. That works....you'll have to see what efficiency you get.

Note that you can do a full double batch sparge (no mashout), which is what many people do, even with just two pots, as long as you have an extra bottling bucket or ale pail hanging around. The method is:

1 pot is HLT, the other is MLT:
Mash in at 1.25-2 qt/lb, (I prefer 1.5). Wait an hour.
Drain first runnings into ale pail.
Add sparge #1 water, stir 10 min, let sit, drain into ale pail.
Add sparge #2 water, stir 10 min.
Dump 1st and 2nd runnings into your HLT, which is now your boil kettle.
Drain 3rd runnings, (from sparge #2) either into bucket or directly into boil kettle.

Up Up and Away!

 

[mhermetz]

Sure. That works....you'll have to see what efficiency you get.

Note that you can do a full double batch sparge (no mashout), which is what many people do, even with just two pots, as long as you have an extra bottling bucket or ale pail hanging around. The method is:

1 pot is HLT, the other is MLT:
Mash in at 1.25-2 qt/lb, (I prefer 1.5). Wait an hour.
Drain first runnings into ale pail.
Add sparge #1 water, stir 10 min, let sit, drain into ale pail.
Add sparge #2 water, stir 10 min.
Dump 1st and 2nd runnings into your HLT, which is now your boil kettle.
Drain 3rd runnings, (from sparge #2) either into bucket or directly into boil kettle.

Up Up and Away!

I would do this but I was under the impression you want to start heating up the wort as soon as it leaves the MLT. If you have it sitting in the Bottling bucket it won't have a heat source.

 

[shortyjacobs]

I would do this but I was under the impression you want to start heating up the wort as soon as it leaves the MLT. If you have it sitting in the Bottling bucket it won't have a heat source.

Blah, I never do. Haven't had a problem yet. Only issue would be that some enzymatic activity is still on-going....but hell, sometimes I just mash long anyway cuz I'm not right on the ball....who says 60 minutes is perfect for mash length anyway? Some people do 30 min, some do 2 hrs....worst comes to worst, your wort is just a little more fermentable...but it certainly won't ruin your beer.

 

[mhermetz]

humm Ic Ic.... that would make things easier for me...