Is my brew stalled or finished?

[kakamone]

I was trying out BIAB method for my first ever Czech Lager.

The recipe:
12L spring water
2.5kg Pilsner Malt
75g Saaz Hops
6g Fermentis Saflager S-23
3g yeast nutrient consisting of DAP, and some other stuff

The details of mashing:

I was mashing it at around 68-70C for 60 min, however due to the lack of a bigger pot, i was mashing it without having an excess of water. I was mashing it with 12L of water, and if some of it boiled of, i just added in preheated water, so it would match 70C and 12L in total.

OG: 1.046

The bubbling of the airlock was very intense, however after 3 days it stopped. So i took a gravity reading: 1.022. I let it sit for 4 more days before taking another gravity reading: 1.022. It didn't change a bit! Is it possible the brew is finished with such high gravity? Or is it stalled? I'm not sure what to do now...

EDIT: It was fermenting between 14C-16C in my fermentation chamber.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Raise the temperature to 20C and see if it starts again.

 

[kakamone]

Raise the temperature to 20C and see if it starts again.

Are you sure? This temperature is beyond this yeast tolerance... on the packet it says between 12-18C.

 

[Snuffy]

Give it a good swirl and see if it wakes up.

 

[DBhomebrew]

With what tool are you measuring gravity?

 

[dmtaylor]

Are you using a hydrometer to measure gravity, or a refractometer? If a refractometer was used, you need to know that it does not read accurately when alcohol is present. With a refractometer, you must use an equivalency calculator to determine an accurate finishing gravity, such as this one by Sean Terrill:

http://seanterrill.com/2012/01/06/refractometer-calculator/

Set the correction factor to 1.00 and enter your starting and finishing measurements in Brix instead of specific gravity. Then you end up with this:

That looks better, doesn't it!

If you did not use a refractometer, then nevermind, then I did all of this for nothing.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Are you sure? This temperature is beyond this yeast tolerance... on the packet it says between 12-18C.

It’s already stall just try it.

 

[worlddivides]

Are you sure? This temperature is beyond this yeast tolerance... on the packet it says between 12-18C.

That's not its "tolerance." That's its "ideal fermentation range." It can tolerate up to around 40C, though you certainly wouldn't want it that hot. Raising it to 20C at this point certainly won't hurt anything. If you're concerned, though, you could just raise it to 18C and see if that does anything.

 

[kakamone]

With what tool are you measuring gravity?

I am using a hydrometer

 

[dmtaylor]

I am using a hydrometer

In that case, I think you mashed a little too hot and killed off too much enzymes in the mash. 68-70C is pretty hot for a good mash. Next time aim closer to 65C, which is less harmful to both alpha and beta amylase enzymes.

I agree with others that you should rouse the yeast, either swirl or rock the fermenter, or stir with a sanitized spoon to pull the yeast up from the bottom and hopefully coerce them into continuing the fermentation for a few more days.

My guess, however, is that the fermentation is complete or very near completion, and you will just need to drink it the way it is.

 

[kakamone]

Ok, i swirled it, and raised the temp to 20C, will come back in a few days

 

[AlexKay]

Btw, barley is pretty much perfect yeast food, and has everything you need already (except zinc.) You can skip the nutrients (and should skip the DAP) with an all-malt beer.

 

[Snuffy]

Ok, i swirled it, and raised the temp to 20C, will come back in a few days

Any luck?

 

[kakamone]

Sooo, after 4 days, no changes. Still 1.022 on the hydrometer. I also checked if the hydrometer is working correctly by submerging it in 20C water to check if it shows 0. It does.

EDIT: The beer is very hazy, which i consider undesired, especially when i am brewing a Czech Lager... It there a possibility to do something about it? I don't have a keg, so cold crashing is i guess not possible.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Personally I would dump it and put it down to learning. We’ve all had something similar.

 

[dmtaylor]

EDIT: The beer is very hazy, which i consider undesired, especially when i am brewing a Czech Lager... It there a possibility to do something about it? I don't have a keg, so cold crashing is i guess not possible.

You can try adding gelatin. Purchase some unflavored gelatin from your local grocer. It will probably come to you in small envelopes. Half of one envelope is adequate for your batch (approximately 1 teaspoon full). Microwave a half glass of water until boiling. Then dissolve the gelatin in the boiled water. Let cool for 10-15 minutes, then swirl your fermenter and add this into it and swirl some more. Sometimes results are immediate but after a day or two you will likely see the beer beginning to clear. Leave it for as long as you like, up to 4 or 5 days perhaps, then it should be more clear and more enjoyable.

 

[Snuffy]

I’d repitch another yeast to finish it up. Won’t be the same but better than dumping. I realize it’s a lager, but Notty could easily knock another 15 or 20 points off of there at room temp w/o adding flavors.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Good money after bad, just dump.

 

[kakamone]

I'm okay with dumping it, but what lesson is to be learned here? Did 5C more when mashing really mess it that badly?

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Have you tasted a sample?

 

[kakamone]

Have you tasted a sample?

Yes, it was alcoholic and kinda sweet. there is strong hoppy character, and a little very little acidity

 

[Rish]

If it tastes okay, I'd package it and drink even if it wasn't I was aiming for. But I'm a pretty cheap guy!

 

[doug293cz]

I’d repitch another yeast to finish it up. Won’t be the same but better than dumping. I realize it’s a lager, but Notty could easily knock another 15 or 20 points off of there at room temp w/o adding flavors.

It's most likely that OP ended up with a not very fermentable wort (lots of dextrin due to the high mash temp.) I'm not sure if S-23 is one of the yeasts which cannot ferment maltotriose, but if it is, then adding a yeast that can ferment maltotriose should reduce the FG somewhat. Adding some alpha amylase enzyme to the fermenter can partially hydrolyze any non-limit dextrin to fermentable sugars and limit dextrin (which are non-fermentable, but at this point the less dextrin the better), and thus let the yeast continue to lower the SG. At fermentation temperatures it will take several days for the added amylase to finish its work.

Brew on

 

[kakamone]

I tasted it and it's not really bad tasting, i think i will package it. I don't want to spend so much time saving this brew just to get some more alcohol out of it. I have 2 concers tho... 1. Can this beer poison me. 2. Can because of the high gravity, can the beer create a bottle bomb?

 

[RM-MN]

1. No.
2. Yes, If your fermentation is stalled it can restart and cause bottle bombs. It is unlikely to have stayed stalled for that long. Bottle it but put the bottles in a plastic tub with a lid. If one blows, expect the rest to follow.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was mashing it with 12L of water, and if some of it boiled of [...]

Were you heating the mash during that hour? That may have raised the mash temps even higher, especially in the bottom half of your mash, denaturing enzymes even more and faster.

The idea of the mash is to keep the temps within that narrow range (aka "Brewers Window," see graph below) where the enzymes are working optimally, at least for the majority of that time.

 

[kakamone]

Were you heating the mash during that hour? That may have raised the mash temps even higher, especially in the bottom half of your mash, denaturing enzymes even more and faster.

The idea of the mash is to keep the temps within that narrow range (aka "Brewers Window," see graph below) where the enzymes are working optimally, at least for the majority of that time.

View attachment 867358

I did heat the mash during that hour, and thats probably why the FG is so high, the fermentable sugars converted to non-fermentables, as i remember reaching even 70-72C. Anyways, i bottled everything and put it in my "bomb shelter" (cardboard box that is taped so even if something explodes it will be contained). I guess if it won't explode in 2 weeks, i will move it to my fridge for lagering for 6 weeks. I will keep you all updated. Thanks all for help, brewing is much more managable when i have some experts advice at my hand

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] the fermentable sugars converted to non-fermentables

That can't happen, the mash is a chopping process, it doesn't recombine.

In the mash, starches are first chopped up by Alpha-Amylase into smaller pieces (dextrins), which are unfermentable. Most of those dextrins are then chopped up by Beta-Amylase into a variety of sugars, most of which are fermentable.

The higher the (mash) temperatures the more Beta-Amylase is being denatured (broken down), so that last step (conversion to sugars) is not as effective anymore, so you'd end up with a less fermentable wort. That graph (in my previous post) shows you the temp vs. activity regions of those 2 enzymes.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm not sure if S-23 is one of the yeasts which cannot ferment maltotriose

Fermentis Tips & Tricks, p 43 (https://fermentis.com/en/knowledge-center/beer-tips-tricks/).

 

[doug293cz]

Fermentis Tips & Tricks, p 43 (https://fermentis.com/en/knowledge-center/beer-tips-tricks/).

View attachment 867376​

So, SafAle S-33 apparently cannot ferment maltotriose, but OP used SafLager, which does ferment maltotriose. From the same Fermentis document linked in previous post:

Brew on