Is my Alkalinity too low?

[luizffgarcia]

Hi guys,

I have been trying to better understand my water, which i build from 100% distilled and there is one aspect i am worried about, the buffer.

If you look at the screenshot the alkalinity is 13, and reading thru the example profiles i see this is very low comparing to others.

I just purchased a MW102 to better control my mash Ph, but i need to understand what is the alkalinity role in this.

So, does this water look ok for a APA? Is the buffer to low for some reason? And if yes, how can i correct it?

I mostly brew APAs and IPAs, for my IPAs the only change is i raise the Sulfate to around 220ppm, still get low alkalinity when i do that.

Thanks for the help

 

[rudylyon57]

What was your room temp mash PH? A lower PH (5.1-5.2) will create a clean, crisp and bright flavor and probably the right choice for APA/IPA. Whereas a higher PH (5.4-5.6) will give more of a smooth & rounded mouthfeel. Since your water has low bicarbonate you may find PH is about right for this style. A higher bicarbonate would buffer the mash toward a higher PH.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If you are building water from 100% distilled, where is your alkalinity coming from? There is no alkalinity in distilled water.

 

[BigGutHeavyD]

Why do you believe your alkalinity is too low?

It seems your understanding of alkalinity is incorrect.

Alkalinity is a measure of how much acid a solution neutralizes. Low alkalinity in a mash is good as it allows the acidity of the grain and water salts to lower the pH without adding additional acid.

The only reason you would want water with moderate to high alkalinity is if you were brewing darker beers with highly acidic roasted malts or perhaps you enjoy the taste of carbonates in your drink.

 

[TheHopfather]

Questions like this seem to be pretty common when people start messing with their water. The #1 goal in adjusting your water is to hit a certain mash pH. Ignore everything else and focus on that pH. The lower the alkalinity, the easier it is to lower your pH, so for APA/IPA's lower alkalinity is better.

The secondary reason for adjusting your water is to play with various salts to build a taste profile. I'm sure you've heard that higher amounts of sulfate will increase the perception of bitterness/dryness in a beer whereas higher amounts of chloride will do the same for malt/fullness. A touch of sodium makes everything taste better as well.

But as to your original question; low alkalinity is a good thing unless you are brewing dark beers with lots of crystal/roasted malts. In that case you can actually drive your pH too low. For light colored beers it is desirable. Don't get caught up trying to replicate other people's water profiles. People use tap water and, depending where you live, chances are yours will be different. Pick a profile you want to replicate out of the Brun Water pull down, match that with salts and then focus on getting your pH in line. That's all there is to it.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Alright, thanks for the replies guys.

I am focusing in controlling the Mash Ph and the Chloride to Sulfate ratio and all, that i think i understand pretty well, my concern was that comparing my Alkalinity with other profiles it was always lower, probably because i dont use any tap water in my beer.

Apparently i can relax and ignore the Alkalinity since the Mash Ph is always under control. Should i be worrying about boil Ph as well?

 

[ajdelange]

Looking over the posts it appears some are confusing alkalinity of the source water with alkalinity of the treated water. In the source water the lower the alkalinity the better i.e. 0 for RO/DI water is in general a good thing but in some cases you will need to neutralize the acidity of dark malts if there are enough of them in which case some source water alkalinity is a good thing.

The alkalinity of the mash or treated water doesn't really matter much unless you know the acidities and alkalinities of the malts you are mashing so you can forget about that. Your goal is to tune for proper mash pH.

Another good thing to forget about is chloride to sulfate ratio. See the sticky here on that subject.

 

[BigGutHeavyD]

You shouldn't ignore alkalinity. Instead you should seek to understand what it is and the effect it has on your brewing.

Your alkalinity is low because you use 100% distilled water. As you say switching to your tap water may be a different story.

Why not try and use your tap water for a beer or two? It may help you better understand alkalinity.

Just because your mash pH is "always under control" doesn't mean your alkalinity values can't be adjusted to ease the pH adjustment. Suppose you have tap water with high alkalinity, you could then cut this water with distilled or RO water to reduce the alkalinity thus requiring less acid to hit mash pH.

Boil pH is of concern if your mash pH isn't properly set otherwise it's a matter of preference - most recommend 5.1 or 5.2, at which point the yeast will lower the pH to their desired level.

 

[ajdelange]

You shouldn't ignore alkalinity.

You shouldn't ignore source water alkalinity. It is the most important water parameter having a profound effect on mash pH.

Instead you should seek to understand what it is and the effect it has on your brewing.

For source water alkalinity that is so. Understanding how to figure out how much acid is required to get alkaltinity WRT mash pH from the published alkalinity which is WRT pH 4.5 (ISO definition of alkalinity) is the key to understanding brewing water chemistry. Once we know how much acid it takes to get the water to mash pH, however, we no longer care about alkalinity as calculated by the spreadsheets because the alkalinity WRT mash pH is 0 and there is no additional proton demand. Besides which the alkalinity calculated by the spreadsheets for the mash (WRT 4.5) is not correct as it does not allow for the loss of CO2 in transition to mash pH. But as we don't care what the alkalinity is at this point, that doesn't much matter. Just ignore the post treatment alkalinity numbers.

 

[BigGutHeavyD]

I tend to agree with you Mr. Delange, however, the screenshot posted in the OP lists an alkalinity value of 13 ppm as CaCO3 remaining after acidification which means that the spreadsheet is not filled out properly with 100% distilled water as the OP indicates -or- the spreadsheet is filled out with some water other than distilled and it then estimates remaining alkalinity. The author of the spreadsheet would have to comment on it as the cell comment indicates "for informational purposes only". How would one calculate 13 ppm as CaCO3 remaining in the mash with distilled water? Also, the OP would have to post screenshots of the other tabs on that sheet.

 

[luizffgarcia]

I tend to agree with you Mr. Delange, however, the screenshot posted in the OP lists an alkalinity value of 13 ppm as CaCO3 remaining after acidification which means that the spreadsheet is not filled out properly with 100% distilled water as the OP indicates -or- the spreadsheet is filled out with some water other than distilled and it then estimates remaining alkalinity. The author of the spreadsheet would have to comment on it as the cell comment indicates "for informational purposes only". How would one calculate 13 ppm as CaCO3 remaining in the mash with distilled water? Also, the OP would have to post screenshots of the other tabs on that sheet.

Wow i hope i am not using brun water wrong! I will post all sheets when i get home later today.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Are you adding baking soda to the distilled water? That would generate alkalinity and raise it from zero.

 

[ajdelange]

I tend to agree with you Mr. Delange, however, the screenshot posted in the OP lists an alkalinity value of 13 ppm as CaCO3 remaining after acidification which means that the spreadsheet is not filled out properly with 100% distilled water as the OP indicates -or- the spreadsheet is filled out with some water other than distilled and it then estimates remaining alkalinity. The author of the spreadsheet would have to comment on it as the cell comment indicates "for informational purposes only". How would one calculate 13 ppm as CaCO3 remaining in the mash with distilled water? Also, the OP would have to post screenshots of the other tabs on that sheet.

Bru'n water is mysterious in its treatment of the carbo system. It appears that OP added salts that do not contribute to alkalinity to RO water with its alkalinity of 2 or so and came up with 13. I am as puzzled as you.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Hi guys, sorry took me so long to update the other sheets, had a couple busy days.

Here it is, am i doing something wrong to use 100% distilled?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your dilution water profile is set for RO. And you have selected 100% dilution water as your source. You are thereby telling Bru'n Water that you are using RO, which is not distilled water. RO has some level of residual alkalinity. In this case, 16 ppm as bicarb.

If you are using RO, this is probably OK (assuming that your RO does in fact have 16 ppm bicarb, which in reality is unlikely, since it is a function of the RO's source water combined with the rejection ratio of the RO unit, and is not a fixed quantity), but if you are in fact using distilled, then you must change this to reflect distilled. Distilled has zero alkalinity (as alkalinity, or as bicarbonate).

Also, Vienna is a base malt, not a crystal malt.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Wait, so you are saying my alkalinity should be zero since i use 100% destilled? And this may be causing me to add more acids than i need so my ph may be too low?

Oh crap...

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Fortunately it is only 16 ppm of alkalinity, and programs like this are only educated guessing at the mash pH to begin with, so who knows, it may be guessing in just the right direction to compensate for the alkalinity that is not actually there.

In addition, the artificial acidity that your "Crystal Vienna" is introducing to the mash is assuredly offsetting some portion of the phantom alkalinity, so I'd say that since two wrongs (in this case) make a right, you are likely just fine.

And lastly, in my opinion high mash pH (above 5.6) poses a far greater potential threat to mashing success than does low mash pH (below 5.2). After a member of the Brulosophy group mashed at a measured pH of 4.45 and brewed a beer that a panel of blind taste testers subsequently could not distinguish from the same recipe mashed side by side with it at pH 5.33, I became convinced that mashing at very low pH's (at least as low as 4.45) does not seem to cause much if any perceptible harm.