Is copper immersion chiller turning my pool green?

[bendog15]

New home owner here. I’ve had some bad pool issues since we’ve moved in. Had several pool guys out who could not determine the issues with cloudiness and pool turning green.
I brew poolside and empty my jaded copper immersion chiller into the pool. I think that is the cause of my problem. Anyone here have any experience with this?
Googling the problem shows that metal in your poolwater can cause cloudiness and green water. The chlorine or pool shock will be oxidized by metals present in water and turn green.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes.

The Statute of Liberty is made of copper.

 

[bendog15]

Yes.

The Statute of Liberty is made of copper.

Yeah that’s what I figured. My pool is currently the color of lady liberty

 

[augiedoggy]

Fairly certian that green tarnish which have a name that starts with a v (I cant remember) can Be toxic as well... if your pumping pool water through it with all the chemicals already in the water it's probably eating the copper which is dissolving into the water.

 

[Nokt]

Fairly certian that green tarnish which have a name that starts with a v (I cant remember) can Be toxic as well... if your pumping pool water through it with all the chemicals already in the water it's probably eating the copper which is dissolving into the water.

That would be Verdigris.

 

[postalbunny]

Were you emptying the chiller into the pool... or recirculating pool water through the chiller? If recirc, I think you def have an issue with chlorinated water hitting the copper... i'd think it'd turn green almost instantly. If you're just dumping the waste water then i could see that taking some time... it would still carry bits of copper, but only as much that would naturally be leeched into the water passing through.

 

[czmkid]

I drain my jaded chiller into my pool to refill it every two weeks as I loose about an inch a week and it does not turn green. I Do Not run pool water through the jaded chiller. The issue you are having is the fact that you probably already have a pool chemical imbalance issue and you are further diluting the chemicals by adding even more water.

Chances are pretty good that your cya level and combined chlorine is out of control high and that the free chlorine level is low and can’t get high enough to shock the pool and kill the algae that’s is taking over your pool.

When is the last time you tested your pool for:
Fc
Cc
Cya
Ta
Ph
Ca hardness

Might I suggest some relevant reading.....if you post up over there they will get you straight in no time. A great group of people like here at HBT.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/content/169-TFP-Home-Page

And to get one of these ASAP...

http://tftestkits.net/test-kits-c4/

Btw, no affiliation to the website or kitcompany...but in 10 years I can tell you how many times my pool has turned green.....0.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I use a Robbelle's 5 in 1. That doesn't cure CYA, but it is a good product...better than plain chlorine tablets IMO; and makes keeping your water clear and PH balanced easy.
I think CYA is usually caused by over chlorinating your pool, and too much CYA eventually makes the chlorine ineffective (if I'm not mistaken).
I think you have to drain/replace a lot of the water to get rid of it, and it (CYA) tends to go to the bottom...so you have to keep that in mind.
Otherwise, it's a cycle; you add more chlorine, and in the process add more CYA.
Agree with @czmkid on the troublefreepool forum...good stuff there.

 

[GnenieGone]

New home owner here. I’ve had some bad pool issues since we’ve moved in. Had several pool guys out who could not determine the issues with cloudiness and pool turning green.
I brew poolside and empty my jaded copper immersion chiller into the pool. I think that is the cause of my problem. Anyone here have any experience with this?
Googling the problem shows that metal in your poolwater can cause cloudiness and green water. The chlorine or pool shock will be oxidized by metals present in water and turn green.

The best algacide is copper based. If I'm reading correctly you're dumping the hot water of the chiller into your pool. Hot water will remove chlorine from the pool rapidly. This is why more chlorine is needed in the summer. Did the same thing you did and stopped the process because of the same issue.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Agree with that too.
It's nice when it cools down, and you can dial back the settings on the chlorine dispenser.
Honestly, I've always been more concerned with keeping my pool water clean/clear & balanced, I've never considered dumping anything other than normal water into it.

 

[passedpawn]

I've been returning my chiller water back to the pool for more than 10 years without any issue. I've brewed regularly during that period. I doubt the problem has anything to do with the chiller / coppper / hot water from chiller.

IMO, it's a simple matter of getting chlorine and pH levels where they need to be. If that doesn't take care of it, dump a couple of 2.5g containers of chlorine in there to shock (kill) everything, and add some flocculant to get any cloudiness out. Run pool pump 2 days straight.

 

[Summoner12]

This right here below is your issue. Your pool's chemistry is F'd and needs a restart.

If you just purchased a home, drain that pool, refill and start over. Read trouble free pool forums, it's a HUGE resource.

My brother in law and I both moved into homes with pools at the same time. Neither of us had ever had pools or knew anything about them. We both drained and refilled and had the easiest pool care. we were both noobs but figured it out and managed it without a pool guy... I had a pool guy (couldn't fire him because I was renting) but He hardly ever did anything but add some chlorine and acid just a tad each time (had him on camera and checked each week). The kid probably was like "WTH, this pool never needs chems!?!?!"

I drain my jaded chiller into my pool to refill it every two weeks as I loose about an inch a week and it does not turn green. I Do Not run pool water through the jaded chiller. The issue you are having is the fact that you probably already have a pool chemical imbalance issue and you are further diluting the chemicals by adding even more water.

Chances are pretty good that your cya level and combined chlorine is out of control high and that the free chlorine level is low and can’t get high enough to shock the pool and kill the algae that’s is taking over your pool.

When is the last time you tested your pool for:
Fc
Cc
Cya
Ta
Ph
Ca hardness

Might I suggest some relevant reading.....if you post up over there they will get you straight in no time. A great group of people like here at HBT.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/content/169-TFP-Home-Page

And to get one of these ASAP...

http://tftestkits.net/test-kits-c4/

Btw, no affiliation to the website or kitcompany...but in 10 years I can tell you how many times my pool has turned green.....0.

 

[Summoner12]

To the CYA comments. My understanding is never use the floating chlorine tablets that have CYA in them. I always tossed them out when the pool kid added them, I had to smash the thing... wait, that didn't work, he charged the home owners for another and started using them again. So I had to hide the damn thing in the garage LOL.

Just start fresh, add the CYA you need and watch it. The only way you lose CYA is when you have splash out or over fill the pool and dilute it. I was really bad about overfilling the pool, so I was having to check CYA and add, especially when we had guests over often in the summer and the pool got a lot of use.

And to the comments about heat killing off chlorine, I've never heard of that. Chlorine gets messed up from aeration and solar UV rays eating it up. You need CYA to combat the UV rays. But too much CYA makes your chlorine not work, so it all needs to be balanced. If heat kills chlorine, than our pool heater must heat with some voodoo magic because I never had chlorine issues and we always heated the pool to 90* every single use (yes we had big gas bills...........)

 

[bendog15]

After 3 years of being a very novice pool owner, and draining and refilling pool 3x, I finally got it down. The first time it turned green was a high cyanuric acid level. I don’t test my water often enough and only do so once it turns cloudy and/or green.
Anyways every single time I’ve had issues with the pool has been phosphates. I’m talking like every 4 months it gets cloudy and green. My water has always stayed balanced. Everything is balanced perfectly, but since standard pool test kits do not test for phosphates, I had no idea what was going on. I had 4 different pool guys come out and none of them could help me. It was a nightmare. Finally a guy who does high end aquariums told me about it. I add phosphate remover, then clarifier, then shock, etc etc. takes over a week to get the pool back to normal.
I found this stuff called phos-free on Amazon. I just add a capful once every week or two. Pool has been brilliant and crystal blue ever since. Bummer that it took me 3 years to figure it out, but that’s home ownership.

 

[bendog15]

Oh yeah and I got a phosphate test kit too. I recommend all pool owners get one.

 

[Summoner12]

Oh yeah and I got a phosphate test kit too. I recommend all pool owners get one.

yeah good call. did you get a TDS meter too? not really something you NEED as long as you do water changes every few years....

 

[coolitfast]

If your pool truly has all the ingredients to make copper water soluble I believe it would be turquoises blue. Was your beer green or blue? That same coil was exposed to your beer at 200° and a 5.2 or lower PH, a much more hostile environment, for the exact same time.

 

[sicktght311]

Your copper isnt turning the pool green. Copper and heavy metals in the pool can stain a liner or gunite, but it wont turn a pool green. Cloudiness and green is 100% algae. Go to a local Leslies pools or comparable pool store that does water testing. Have them test your CYA Levels. Chances are they're high, which means even though you might have a chlorine reading thats right in the right level, or high, its not effective. Its a phenomenon known as chlorine lock.

 

[Summoner12]

After 3 years of being a very novice pool owner, and draining and refilling pool 3x, I finally got it down. The first time it turned green was a high cyanuric acid level. I don’t test my water often enough and only do so once it turns cloudy and/or green.
Anyways every single time I’ve had issues with the pool has been phosphates. I’m talking like every 4 months it gets cloudy and green. My water has always stayed balanced. Everything is balanced perfectly, but since standard pool test kits do not test for phosphates, I had no idea what was going on. I had 4 different pool guys come out and none of them could help me. It was a nightmare. Finally a guy who does high end aquariums told me about it. I add phosphate remover, then clarifier, then shock, etc etc. takes over a week to get the pool back to normal.
I found this stuff called phos-free on Amazon. I just add a capful once every week or two. Pool has been brilliant and crystal blue ever since. Bummer that it took me 3 years to figure it out, but that’s home ownership.

What causes the phosphate for you? well water? Maybe consider doing a carbon filter for your top off line? Do you drop a garden hose into the pool or do you have a auto refill type? or maybe (like my experience) you have just a water valve plumbed to the pool under the deck?

Check to make sure the chemicals you use aren't adding phosphate.

Sources can be yard fertilizer and plant matter. Do you have a robot or pool cleaner that roams the bottom of the pool picking up stuff? If you have one that is powered off of the pool pump I'd recommend an inline net filter. They aren't real cheap but they save the pump basket from filling up with stuff and causing issues. At the pool I had they did not have one and there were trees all around the pool and palm trees. We would get SO much stuff in the pump filter basket you had trouble getting it out to clean.

What filter system do you have? DE, pleated filter, sand? Have you had that cleaned out regularly? It seems odd to have an ongoing issue with a chem, it has a source and should be found and either eliminated or minimized.

I personally really enjoyed keeping the pool nice. It was a bit of pride when people came over and always said "wow it's so clean!!" and I only ever did small amounts of work through the week and the morning of guests coming over. It really just takes little nudges and some knowledge of how it all works. I get a laugh of friends we have who are like "that's way too much work and complicated". I just wanna be like "here, let me show you how simple....." but you can only lead the horse....

 

[passedpawn]

Lawn fertilizer is full of phosphates. If you get rain and it runs off your yard into the pool, that'll do it.

TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) is used to clean roof and walls and windows, make sure you don't get that in your pool.

I've had a pool for a lot of years, completely trouble-free, and I've never replaced the water. Though, given our summer monsoons in Florida, I suppose it gets turned over naturally.

 

[Summoner12]

haha I had my pool in southern California.... in a hot dry climate more inland. Rain was not of much help. We had a couple of good rains and it never got the pool to to point of overflowing. Somewhat disappointed but at the same time that pool didn't have an overflow plumbed... but luckily the entire yard was concrete with drains... so not much fear of floating the pool.

Lawn fertilizer is full of phosphates. If you get rain and it runs off your yard into the pool, that'll do it.

TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) is used to clean roof and walls and windows, make sure you don't get that in your pool.

I've had a pool for a lot of years, completely trouble-free, and I've never replaced the water. Though, given our summer monsoons in Florida, I suppose it gets turned over naturally.

 

[bendog15]

I've been returning my chiller water back to the pool for more than 10 years without any issue. I've brewed regularly during that period. I doubt the problem has anything to do with the chiller / coppper / hot water from chiller.

IMO, it's a simple matter of getting chlorine and pH levels where they need to be. If that doesn't take care of it, dump a couple of 2.5g containers of chlorine in there to shock (kill) everything, and add some flocculant to get any cloudiness out. Run pool pump 2 days straight.

Agreed. Don’t think the copper immersion chiller was making the pool water green.

After 3 years of frustration (and draining + filling the pool 3x) I finally figured out it was a high phosphate level. Don’t know what causes it. But- I add this stuff called phos-free (1 capful every week or so) and pool has stayed sparkling clean ever since

 

[bendog15]

What causes the phosphate for you? well water? Maybe consider doing a carbon filter for your top off line? Do you drop a garden hose into the pool or do you have a auto refill type? or maybe (like my experience) you have just a water valve plumbed to the pool under the deck?

Check to make sure the chemicals you use aren't adding phosphate.

Sources can be yard fertilizer and plant matter. Do you have a robot or pool cleaner that roams the bottom of the pool picking up stuff? If you have one that is powered off of the pool pump I'd recommend an inline net filter. They aren't real cheap but they save the pump basket from filling up with stuff and causing issues. At the pool I had they did not have one and there were trees all around the pool and palm trees. We would get SO much stuff in the pump filter basket you had trouble getting it out to clean.

What filter system do you have? DE, pleated filter, sand? Have you had that cleaned out regularly? It seems odd to have an ongoing issue with a chem, it has a source and should be found and either eliminated or minimized.

I personally really enjoyed keeping the pool nice. It was a bit of pride when people came over and always said "wow it's so clean!!" and I only ever did small amounts of work through the week and the morning of guests coming over. It really just takes little nudges and some knowledge of how it all works. I get a laugh of friends we have who are like "that's way too much work and complicated". I just wanna be like "here, let me show you how simple....." but you can only lead the horse....

I have a sand filter. I’ve actually changed the sand out of it twice (thinking that was the problem, it wasn’t) and replaced several parts of the pump and lines.

I also have a great robot vacuum. He drives around and vacuums the pool. No brushing or vacuuming for me!

Don’t think I’ll go the in-line net filter route. Pool water stays incredibly balanced at all times. It’s just the damn phosphates. My neighborhood has a lot of trees and dirt roads, I’m assuming that’s what’s causing it. As I have a very small lawn and no fertilizer. But as I stated earlier, I just add this phos- free stuff once a week or so. And pool stays sparkling clean.
I’m still afraid to empty my immersion chiller into the pool, hahahaha.

 

[bendog15]

Lawn fertilizer is full of phosphates. If you get rain and it runs off your yard into the pool, that'll do it.

TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) is used to clean roof and walls and windows, make sure you don't get that in your pool.

I've had a pool for a lot of years, completely trouble-free, and I've never replaced the water. Though, given our summer monsoons in Florida, I suppose it gets turned over naturally.

3 of my neighbors have recently re-roofed their houses. That may have been the cause as well.

It’s remarkable how balanced my pool water stays at all times. I don’t do anything to it but add a few pucks of chlorine to the floater.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Copper and heavy metals in the pool can stain a liner or gunite, but it wont turn a pool green.

How can you be sure? Copper (II) chloride solution is green.

https://blog.orendatech.com/pool-turned-green-from-copper
^ There's more where that came from if you want more case reports.

Anyway, glad the OP figured out the issue.

 

[Suanick]

Have you solved that problem? Asking because I am trying to get rid of that green now!

 

[postalbunny]

Have you solved that problem? Asking because I am trying to get rid of that green now!

Thought about this.. and I'm betting it's not the copper chiller itself causing the pool to turn green. While copper might turn green/corroded over time it's not enough to pollute a pool. If you had enough to turn the pool green i would think it would be serious enough corrosion on the coil to cause holes/spotting. Pools usually turn green due to algae... so that's probably more likely what it is.

If the copper immersion chiller isn't being cleaned internally because only water runs through it... user is probably only scrubbing or rinsing the outside when done. I know i never cleaned the inside.. "its just water". But if flushes mine into the lawn for watering... not a pool. Bacteria, mold, or algae are growing inside the coil likely... Then when brew day comes you flush that bacteria out into the pool and it grows and turns it green. At best you probably just hold the chiller upside down and drain water out, but it's still damp inside.

Not sure how you'd fix... other than trying to run some starsan or sanitizer through the internal coil after brewday before you put it up for storage. Or just dose your pool with some extra shock/chems to counteract the algea.

 

[jackyl]

We moved to Florida a few years ago and learned about green pools. It’s not the chiller - all the pool chemistry comments are right, but the easy button is a salt cell. Electrodes turn salt into chlorine, the sun turns chlorine into salt and the cycle repeats. It’s also less salty than the ocean.

 

[passedpawn]

We moved to Florida a few years ago and learned about green pools. It’s not the chiller - all the pool chemistry comments are right, but the easy button is a salt cell. Electrodes turn salt into chlorine, the sun turns chlorine into salt and the cycle repeats. It’s also less salty than the ocean.

It's not salty at all. I never tasted "salt". I liked having a salt pool. The water did feel different, "soft". But my system couldn't keep up (I keep the pool very warm, which I suspect was part of the problem).

Much easier for me is to add two (three in summer) chlorine tablets once a week. I only use the most expensive tablets, I think Pinch a Penny calls them "Complete". I used to use the cheap ones, but I learned the hard way that doesn't work out well. I have one of those autochlorinator cylinders plumbed into the pool return, after the filter. The tablets go in there.

 

[jackyl]

It's not salty at all. I never tasted "salt". I liked having a salt pool. The water did feel different, "soft". But my system couldn't keep up (I keep the pool very warm, which I suspect was part of the problem).

Much easier for me is to add two (three in summer) chlorine tablets once a week. I only use the most expensive tablets, I think Pinch a Penny calls them "Complete". I used to use the cheap ones, but I learned the hard way that doesn't work out well. I have one of those autochlorinator cylinders plumbed into the pool return, after the filter. The tablets go in there.

Yeah, it’s not salty at all, I just said that because people often equate salt pools with the ocean. The element occasionally needs to be replaced and (this is probably more important) there has to be sufficient flow to do the salt to chlorine conversion. If you switch to a low flow / variable speed pump, it has to run a lot longer. Flow doesn’t matter as much with tablets.

 

[Lefou]

If you want nice, clear water in the pool it's going to take some effort in warm weather.

The first thing you need to do is get all the foreign matter out of the pool. Use a net and set your pump to bypass the filter to vacuum out the junk. My 42k gallon pool suffers from pine needles, spruce, oak leaves, and pollen in the spring.
The important part is pH adjustment. The water needs to be at a pH level above 7.2, preferably closer to 7.6-7.8. Get soda ash (sodium carbonate), sodium bicarbonate, and chlorine in liquid, powder, and tablet forms. Soda ash and bicarb will adjust your pH UP and this is critical because it enhances the oxidation activity and life of the chlorine you'll use to sanitize the water. You can get your pool water tested at any Leslie's outlets for free and they can assist you with adjustments for pH, metals, and such. Flocculant is a necessary, too.
You may have to drain you pool periodically because the organic contamination is bad. I'm on city water and a total flush for 42k gallons can be expensive. Your filters need to be in prime shape and clean. The sand or diatomaceous earth needs to be replaced periodically because organic contaminants that don't get broken down in the "shock" oxidation phase can constantly come back to haunt you.

"Green water", in my opinion, means algae buildups and means your pH levels are out of whack. Soda ash and bicarb additions will help and once the pH levels are adjusted it's just a matter of "shock" with chlorine and run the pump continuously while doing constant pH checks with phenolpthalein red drops. Like I said before, I have problems with foreign contaminants in my water and one of the worst is pollen. It leaves a nasty yellow scum that is difficult to remove but can be cured with a working pool filter.

 

[Lefou]

The dissolved chlorine content in pool water will change with pH levels and temperature. I have considered using the huge thermal mass of my inground pool as a great way to conserve water for brewing, but if you're recirculating pool water with a high level of free chlorine it would be a good idea to rinse the copper chiller out with simple tap water afterwards.

A low level of stable soluble copper ions in pool water can actually be beneficial because it prevents algae. If your pool water is green it's usually from algae and foreign contaminants.

 

[jackyl]

Yeah, I’ve thought about the pool for chill water too but it’s logistically an issue for me as the garage is a long way from the pool unless I go through the house, and that would get a veto pretty much immediately. It may still be worth it if I can work the right pump out.