Irish red ale recipe help/critique

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nicklepickles

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So ive been thinking about brewing up an irish red ale, after having a phenomenal imperial red at a local brewery a couple weeks ago. The goal here is to have a good malt complexity, slightly roasted dry finish, fairly good body/mouthfeel, and around 5% or so ABV.
Ive also been thinking about doing a simple 1 step decoction mash for this, to raise mash temp from infusion temp to mashout temp. I havent done a decoction before, so please let me know if I'm going in the right direction here.

Here's my recipe so far:
8 lbs marris otter 64%
3 lbs vienna 24%
8 oz Caramel 40 4%
8 oz caramel 60 4%
6 oz caramel 80 3%
2 oz roasted barley 1%

90 min boil
.5 oz Bravo @ 90 mins for ~24 ibus

Mash at 154* F for 60 mins,
decoct ~1 to 1.5 gallons, heat to 168* for 15, then boil for 15

I havent done any calculations yet for exactly how much im going to decoct, and how long im going to hold it at the various temps, but i will look through How to Brew and figure it out one of these days...

Any insights/help would be awesome!
Also I havent seen it anywhere else, but do people use a decoction on irish ales? I feel like Im taking a stab in the dark here, hehe
 
I would simplify your crystal additions. A 1 lb c120 will give you a nice red color, simplify things, and allowed you to end with a slightly lower FG.

I like my red ales with a lower FG. Add a lb of honey to achieve this too.
 
I agree with adamc, having three Crystal Malt additions will probably muddle your flavors more than anything, and definitely raise your FG. I'd suggest eliminating the Cyrstal 60 additon. Try the recipe with the 40 and 80 first, and consider raising the Roasted Barley addition to around four onces. That should give you about the right color. An Irish Red Ale should have a slighty roasty, slightly dry finish, which you can't accomplish with too much Crystal Malt. As for the Decoction mash, it is not a traditionally used practice in British or Irish brewing. Also if your primary saccrification rest is at 154, you may not need the additional Melanoidin based mouthfeel that boiling the decoction could add... However, you could rest lower at say 150 or so to keep a less dextrinous base wort, and then decoct up. It's your beer, so it's your show. Feel free to experiment.
 
Thanks for the input, i was originally using three crystals to get as much malty complexity as i can get, but im also not much of a fan of muddled flavors.. Im gonna get rid of the 60 and up the roasted barley a bit. Hmm, maybe starting at 150 and decocting up to 168 is a better idea, im gonna stick with that plan. Also i was planning on using wyeast 1084. I havent used it before, any advice on an ideal fermentation temp?
 
I disagree- the different caramels contribute different flavors as well as color. I like to use two in an amber, usually of fairly dissimilar color (say 40 and 80) so I don't think 3 is ridiculous. The proportion in this recipe looks good.
 
I'm going to go the other direction, and not just to be different. I like your idea of multiple crystals. I would additionally bump the roasted barley to 2% for a nice complexity and color. This will accomplish what Bayareanordic was pointing out without too much thinness. I hate a thin Irish ale.

The hops sound on the high side and I think you'll get more than 24 IBU out of that (depending on Alpha). I would aim for ~22 IBU, and I expect the utilization will be higher than you think.

So taking your idea (which I like) of the basic beer with some complexity from the crystal and a Single decoction/infusion:

5# Maris Otter
3# Vienna
8 oz each of 40 and 60 Crystal
6 oz 80L Crystal
2 oz Roasted Barley
1.5 oz Fuggles 4.5% @ 60 mins (easier/more forgiving to work with than Bravo and more to style)
Wyeast 1098

Single-decoction: Infuse to 122 for 30 mins (optional), decoct to 154 for 45 mins, then mash-out at 168.

I figure this to be:
1.050 OG
1.013 FG
4.9% ABV
23.4 IBU
13.5 SRM

... which is spot-on for an Irish Ale and I think captures what you were looking for.

ETA: daksin beat me to the crystal comments. Damn my slow typing! :)
 
I've found a very good Irish Red recipe that was good in it's simplicity. In addition to a Marris Otter base it uses
4 oz. Belgian Special B Malt
12 oz. Belgian Biscuit Malt
12 oz. British Crystal 50-60°L Malt
Make it to a 1.054-57 original gravity. I'll mash at 152-53 degree F in a single infusion mash usually 60 minutes. Boil for 60 minutes and hop it to 35-38 IBU and use Goldings for flavor. It makes a real good Irish Red. Try it sometime.
 
Great feedback all, thanks!
Im going to go back to my original plan with three crystals, seems like it will accomplish what i'm hoping it will! I do 6.5 gal recipes, so here's my plan thus far:
8 lbs marris otter
3 lbs vienna
8 oz each 40 and 60
6 oz 80
4 oz roasted barley

This'll give me ~12% crystal malts with 2% roasted barley, an OG ~1.048 and an FG of ~1.013. I like the idea of using Fuggles also, havent used 'em, and heard a lot of mixed reviews about them. Going to bitter to around 20-22 IBUS.

LBussy- any reason for using the 1098 as opposed to the 1084 i chose? I really know very little about non-american style yeast strains (love them IPAs :mug: )

ericbw- Im adding the vienna to get a little bit of a light sweetness, as well as to add some complexity to the base malt. I used vienna in a blonde ale recently, and damn it's delicious!
 
It's a bit of a prejudice i guess .... so far the more 'fringe' strains (Irish vs British) have left me flat. The 1098 is an excellent, known performer, and leaves a nice character in the finished beer. The 1084 may be the choice of St Patrick himself, but beers I've had with it have been thinner and lacking character. Your choice of the crystals and Vienna led me to believe you might appreciate it more than the Irish strain.

I figured it at 5 gals BTW, so you may be right. I also had 4 oz of roaster barley figured in, 2 was a typo
 
interesting, i think i will actually switch to the 1098, ive had a few irish beers in the past that werent very flavorful, and i definitely dont want that in this beer. thanks for the advice!
 
Ordered grains yesterday, changed it up a little bit. I'm adding 8 oz golden naked oats and 6 oz flaked barley, and subbing out 1 lb marris otter. Should be brewing this up by friday or saturday hopefully
 
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