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IPA recipe apollo hops

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bg1414

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Hi. I've never posted here. I am going to make an ipa soon and I have lots of apollo and cascade hops. I was wondering if I should add any other types of hops to make this or is what I have good enough? I was thinking also using some simcoe or columbus? Any thoughts?
 

bobbrews

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Apollo is dank, skunky, citrusy, and intense
Cascade is pure grapefruit, light, and pleasant

Adding another hop to this mix is dependant on your particular goals for this beer. I would add fruity, tropcial, and/or piney like Citra or Simcoe.

It not only depends on what hops you choose, but also how and when you choose to use them... as well as the OG, the grist makeup, and the yeast profile.
 
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bg1414

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I was going to make a double IPA and use DME and steep some crystal or caramel malt for color. I was thinking of adding honey (maybe a lb) to dry it out. I was thinking bittering with the apollo for sure and using cascade for flavor, aroma and dry hopping. Do you know if apollo would be good to use a tad for flavor, aroma or dry hop?
 

bobbrews

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Apollo can be used everywhere in the recipe for an IPA with success, but it's high aa% makes the most sense for bittering. It's quite dank... reminiscent of marijuana, so proceed with caution.

I would use corn sugar or table sugar; it's cheaper than honey. And only 1 lb. of honey is not likely to offer much character... especially if you add it to scalding hot wort.

Keep the light crystal under 6% total.
 

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I just used Apolla, Bravo, CTZ, Simcoe mix in equal parts for an Hopped Red Rye. I dont know if it will be good because its still fermenting, but during to boil I got huge Fruity, Citrus, and Bubblegum aromas
 
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bg1414

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here is what I have so far, opinions? I am trying to get the FG down but I am not sure the program recognizes the effects of honey or corn sugar on FG.


Size: 5.0*gal @ 68*°F
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 294.13*kcal per 12.0*fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.088 (1.056 - 1.075)
Terminal Gravity: 1.022 (1.010 - 1.018)
Color: 10.72 (6.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 8.7% (5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 81.6 (40.0 - 70.0)

Ingredients:
3.5*lb (33.3%) Dry Extra Light - added during boil, boiled 60*m
5.5*lb (52.4%) Dry Extra Light - added during boil, boiled 20*m
1.0*lb (9.5%) Honey - added during boil, boiled 15*m
8.0*oz (4.8%) Caramel Malt 40L - added before boil, steeped 30*m
.75*oz (9.4%) Apollo (17.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60*m
.25*oz (3.1%) Apollo (17.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30*m
.75*oz (9.4%) Cascade (7.9%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
.75*oz (9.4%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
.5*oz (6.3%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil 0 m
.5*oz (6.3%) Cascade (7.9%) - added during boil 0 m
.5*oz (6.3%) Apollo (17.0%) - added during boil 0 m
1*oz (12.5%) Apollo (17.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
3*oz (37.5%) Cascade (7.9%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
2.0*ea White Labs WLP001 California Ale


Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.24
 

bobbrews

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Assuming you are doing intermittent shaking, you will need to make a 1.5 L yeast starter with your 2 vials of WLP001 for 5 gallons at 1.088 OG.

No reason to add the late extraction addition at 20 minutes, and lose your boil power. Toss it in at flameout.

More late hops (10-0-DH)
 
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bg1414

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Will one bottle of white labs be ok if I make a starter? How much more late hops? Make the 0 additions 1 oz instead of .5?
 
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bg1414

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Never mind that last part. I'll make a 2L started with 2 vials per mr malty
 

bobbrews

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It appears he has never made a starter before. I think it would add further confusion to ask him to step-up a starter if this his first time ever making one.

If using intermittent shaking, he would also need a starter beaker larger than the typical 2 liter capacity, since a step-up starter of the appropriate size for 300 billion cells would be about 1.3 liters + 1.3 liters = 2.6 liters without accounting for several inches of foamy krausen.
 

zachattack

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Or just grab S-05 dried yeast. I know some claim it's a different strain, but I can't tell the difference.
 

bobbrews

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You would need multiple packets of that as well. I personally find that US-05 doesn't clear as well, or offer the same level of end quality in very high OG ales compared to a healthy liquid yeast starter of the appropriate size.
 
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bg1414

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You are correct, I have not made a starter before. I was trying to use Mr Malty and it is telling me to use 2 vials and 1.16L for my starter using intermittent shaking. Does that sound correct?
 

zachattack

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You would need multiple packets of that as well. I personally find that US-05 doesn't clear as well, or offer the same level of end quality in very high OG ales compared to a healthy liquid yeast starter of the appropriate size.
You're right, I didn't notice the high OG. I'd still rather buy 2 packets than 2 vials + a starter of the liquid. I find that all the Chico varients show pretty crappy flocculation, to be honest I'm starting to prefer Nottingham fermented cool (55-60 degrees).
 

bobbrews

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I was trying to use Mr Malty and it is telling me to use 2 vials and 1.16L for my starter using intermittent shaking. Does that sound correct?
Only if your yeast was produced the same day you brewed with it, which is unlikely. Chances are that it will be at least 2 weeks since it was produced, possibly more. Therefore, you would need to account for the production date for a more accurate end figure. The production date should be listed on the packet. White Labs uses an expiration date however, which is 4 months from the day it was first produced.
 
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bg1414

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Oh I see. That ups the volume to around 1.3L. I was reading Palmers book about making a yeast starter. I think he mentions the stepping up process. (adding more wort after first fermentation is done to increase cell count)
 

bobbrews

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Yes, but to step up a starter, you're adding more fresh wort to the starter after the first day.... not adding more wort to the full volume of fermenting wort in your primary.
 
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bg1414

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I made some changes to the hops. Thoughts?

Size: 5.0*gal @ 68*°F
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 292.12*kcal per 12.0*fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.087 (1.075 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.022 (1.010 - 1.020)
Color: 9.32 (8.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 8.64% (7.5% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 96.0 (60.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
6*oz (3.6%) Caramel Malt 40L - added before boil, steeped 30*m
5.5*lb (53.0%) Dry Extra Light - added during boil, boiled 60*m
3.5*lb (33.7%) Dry Extra Light - added during boil flameout
1.0*lb (9.6%) Honey - added during boil flameout
.75*oz (6.8%) Apollo (19.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60*m
.25*oz (2.3%) Apollo (19.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30*m
1*oz (9.1%) Cascade (7.9%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
1*oz (9.1%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10*m
1*oz (9.1%) Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil 0 m
1*oz (9.1%) Cascade (7.9%) - added during boil 0 m
1*oz (9.1%) Simcoe® (13.0%) - added during boil 0 m
2*oz (18.2%) Simcoe® (13.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
2*oz (18.2%) Cascade (7.9%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
1*oz (9.1%) Apollo (19.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
2.0*ea White Labs WLP001 California Ale
 

bobbrews

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With an appropriate sized healthy starter, your FG should be wayyyyyy lower than 1.022.

Switch the DME to 3.5 lb at boil start and 5.5 lb at flameout.

Pitch the honey at high krausen to preserve the delicate aroma. Honey is already sanitary, but Ray Daniels tells you how to effectively sanitize it in his book, Designing Great Beers.

More early, middle, and late hops (flameout and dryhop amounts are good). After all, this is 1.087 OG you're dealing with. I wouldn't be afraid of IBUs. The max perceived concentration will always be less than 110 despite what any calculator tells you.

The dryhop dominates the character of the IPA. The next most important flavoraroma contributor is the 0 min addition.

Citra = Mainly tropical, citrus backnote
Simcoe = Pine, fruit, and musty citrus
Cascade = One note floral grapefruit
Apollo = Dank resiny marijuana and citrus
 
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bg1414

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How much you think I should up the early middle and late hops? I was going to change the 30 min apollo addition to .5 oz and up the 10 minute addition to 1.5 each. with that I am at 123 IBU vs 96 before according to beertools.
 

bobbrews

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I like (by weight):

20-28% early
7-16% middle
27-33% late
33-44% dryhop

I wouldn't pay that much attention to IBUs when you get this big. The gravity and the malt can handle anything you throw at it.
 
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