IPA is too sweet!

[EasyBrew]

I brewed two recent batches of a clone of a Green Flash Double IPA and they both came out sweet! I need some help to determine what the heck I am doing wrong.


14.6 lb American Pale 2-Row
1.3 lb United Kingdom Carastan 30/37
1.3 lb American Carapils

.75oz Simcoe Pellet 60 Min
.25 Columbus 60 Min
.25 Simcoe 30 Min
.25 Columbus 30 Min
.75 Simcoe 15 Min
.75 Columbus 15 Min
.5 Columbus Flame out
.5 Simcoe Flame out

Dry Hop
.5oz Columbus
.5 Simcoe
.5 Cascade
.5 Centennial
.5 Amarillo

Primo RO water from Kroger
Water Profile
Ca+2: 147, Mg: 0, Na+: 0, Cl-:51, S04:224, HCO3: 81

Started with 7 gallons and finished with 5.5 after boiling.

My first batch I used WLP090 (San Diego Super Yeast) without a starter. I didn't realize that the liquid yeast was not enough by itself as well as the yeast being a couple of weeks old. So I attributed the sweet flavor to being under pitched. It is so sweet and hard to drink that I put a hop bag with 1 oz simcoe in the keg to make it more palatable... it helped a bit but still really rough.

I decided just to use SafAle 05 the next batch and so I hydrated two packets of yeast and pitched around 80 degrees. I used my BrewJacket Immersion chiller to get it down to 65* (I need to wait to pitch until I reach my temp... still a WIP). It was in the primary for 10 days and then the secondary for about 2 weeks. My original gravity was 1.070 (target was 1.069) and final gravity was 1.015 (target was 1.014).

The hydrometer tasted amazing! Lots of hops like an uncarbonatetd Hopadillo (an IPA from Karbach Brewing here in Houston).

I transferred to the keg, put in the fridge for 24 hours to cool down and then purged a few times, force carbed at 30 psi, rolled it for 5 minutes. It sat with the CO2 off for 2 days and then hooked back up at 10 psi.

My first flavor is still sweet with some hop bitterness on the backend. Definitely not as strong as the first batch but I thought the change in yeast would have fixed my problems. It has only been 3 days since I force carbed so I'll give it some time but I was hoping it would be ready to go right away.

My thoughts as to the problem:
-Beer is still green?
-StarSan or Idopher in the keg is effecting the flavor?
-It is a new hose but maybe I'm getting some sanitizer from my cleaning process?
-I'm using the brew store CO2 but maybe that's effecting flavor?

Any help is appreciated!!!

 

[Dcpcooks]

Sweetness is indicative of under attenuation or not enough hops. What was your target ibu's?

Three weeks should be plenty of time from grain to glass with force carbonation.

Star San isn't sweet, co2 isn't sweet. If your hose is adding an off flavor I'd doubt sweet is the way I'd describe it.

You have a few thing I'd change. Purge your keg asap after transfer. The next day can cause oxidation. That's a cardboard flavor though.

Did you rack the beer to secondary? If so why did you and what was the thing that made you think it was ready to transfer?

 

[jtp137]

You need to get the FG down sounds like you still have some fermentable sugar left in the finished beer. Regardless with dry yeast or liquid yeast use pitch calculator and pitch yeast cooler pitch at 65 you cam raise the temp once fermentation slows down

 

[Biscuits]

I would look more at your use of Cara-malts. 1.014 is a touch high for a traditional IPA (in my opinion) but not enough to make it noticeably sweet. An IPA I brew finishes at 1.010 and I only use 10oz of crystal 40 in it for a 5 gallon batch...it comes out a touch sweet (which I like)...but you're using 1.3 lbs of carastan...I'd imagine it imparts a lot of residual sweetness...maybe dial that back a bit.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Need a few more details to correctly trouble shoot your beer.

1. Do you use a hop spider during the boil?
Depending on the hop screen it could affect utilization.

2. How old are the hops and how were they stored?
Age and storage will affect the utilization.

3. What was the pH of your RO water? Or better yet the pH of your wort prior to boiling.
A low pH wort could affect hop utilization. RO water can range from 4-7 pH. But is typically around 5-6 but you never know what your getting. If by chance you got a batch of very low pH RO and than added salts you could have driven the pH way down. A possibility but unlikely.

4. What temp is the beer and what volume of carbonation are you targeting?
My first thoughts are that it's not carbonated fully. Once it is, the carbonic acid from the CO2 will cut the sweetness. So give it some more time. If your dead positive it's fully carbonated then I would bump it up another .2 volumes and see if that helps.

5. Was the beer oxidized? Check your kegging processes.
Oxidized beer can taste more caramelly sweet, or fruity, depending on what was in the beer before it was oxidized.

StarSan has no flavor unless you left a few cups in the keg or fermenter.

CO2 is CO2. Unless it's contaminated there is no way for it to add sweetness.

 

[thehaze]

I brewed IPAs and DIPAs with a FG of 1.020 and 1.022 ( 6.5% IPA ) and did not feel sweet at all, so that is not a very good indicative of perceived " sweetness " in IPAs.

Lack of bitterness however could be a reason, although not likely in this case.

The Carastan could be the sinner. At 1.3 lbs it seems enough to impart some " unwanted "? sweetness.

 

[EasyBrew]

Thanks friends for the responses. My targeted IBU is 108 and I'll definitely make sure I purge right away. Also, I transferred to my glass carboy because the active fermentation stopped (or seemed to). I mostly racked to a secondary because I need my primary bucket for the next batch and to dry hop. I just bought a few more so I may dispense of the secondary from time to time.

 

[EasyBrew]

You need to get the FG down sounds like you still have some fermentable sugar left in the finished beer. Regardless with dry yeast or liquid yeast use pitch calculator and pitch yeast cooler pitch at 65 you cam raise the temp once fermentation slows down

Yea, great idea! I'll try that and see. I usually ferment Safale at 65 and leave there so I'll check out the calculator. Thanks!

 

[EasyBrew]

Need a few more details to correctly trouble shoot your beer.

1. Do you use a hop spider during the boil?
Depending on the hop screen it could affect utilization.

2. How old are the hops and how were they stored?
Age and storage will affect the utilization.

3. What was the pH of your RO water? Or better yet the pH of your wort prior to boiling.
A low pH wort could affect hop utilization. RO water can range from 4-7 pH. But is typically around 5-6 but you never know what your getting. If by chance you got a batch of very low pH RO and than added salts you could have driven the pH way down. A possibility but unlikely.

4. What temp is the beer and what volume of carbonation are you targeting?
My first thoughts are that it's not carbonated fully. Once it is, the carbonic acid from the CO2 will cut the sweetness. So give it some more time. If your dead positive it's fully carbonated then I would bump it up another .2 volumes and see if that helps.

5. Was the beer oxidized? Check your kegging processes.
Oxidized beer can taste more caramelly sweet, or fruity, depending on what was in the beer before it was oxidized.

StarSan has no flavor unless you left a few cups in the keg or fermenter.

CO2 is CO2. Unless it's contaminated there is no way for it to add sweetness.

Whoa! Great questions!
1. Not sure what a hop spider is so I guess no.
2. I bought them at the brew store 2 days before I brewed so I'm not sure how old they were. I keep them in the freezer usuallly.
3. Great question, I have no idea what my ph is and don't have a ph meter.
4. There is about 5 gallons in the keg and I have it at 10 psi. It is 35* in my fridge at 10 psi that is 2.52 volumes so it looks like I'm within the range.
5. It might have been oxidized, not sure. Since it is coming back with these two batches it taste more like an off flavor rather than a result of extra carapils so it might be something along those lines.

My friend threw out the suggestion that I may have not fully cleaned the kegs well enough and that there is stuff stuck in the poppets and tubes. I'm going to check out some videos to make sure I have the process down because I have not taken apart the keg other than filling with starsan and running it through the valves.

The other possibility that I thought of is my CO2. My dad actually purchased and filled as a Christmas present at some place other than a brew store. I read on the boards that there is non food grade CO2 so not sure if I got that or if it's a contributor but I'll check it out. Thanks for the help!

 

[brewfrog]

Well ,my guess is that you used a couple of tablespoons too much of sugar + carapils is pure sweet ass caramel.

 

[LarMoeCur]

My friend threw out the suggestion that I may have not fully cleaned the kegs well enough and that there is stuff stuck in the poppets and tubes. I'm going to check out some videos to make sure I have the process down because I have not taken apart the keg other than filling with starsan and running it through the valves.

This may very well be your problem. Starsan is not a cleaner. I used to disassemble my kegs for every batch and clean the heck out of them. That takes a lot of time, so I built a keg/carboy washer from a fountain pump. So now I put the keg on hook up the keg post connectors and pump hot PWB through the entire keg. After about 10 minutes I move the pump and keg over to a buck to starsan and pump starsan for 10 minutes. Clean and sanitized!

 

[EasyBrew]

This may very well be your problem. Starsan is not a cleaner. I used to disassemble my kegs for every batch and clean the heck out of them. That takes a lot of time, so I built a keg/carboy washer from a fountain pump. So now I put the keg on hook up the keg post connectors and pump hot PWB through the entire keg. After about 10 minutes I move the pump and keg over to a buck to starsan and pump starsan for 10 minutes. Clean and sanitized!

Nice! I think I'll clean all my kegs correctly and brew this again with a lower amount of Carapils to make sure I remove the known variables that could be the cause of the sweetness. I'm gonna remove old beer lines, clean taps and make sure to properly clean my fermentors as well.

I know this isn't the recipe board but any suggestions as to how to improve my recipe? Cut the Carapils in half?

Its day 3 since I tapped the keg and it is rounding out a little bit more and the over powering initial sweet flavor is starting to diminish. It is not the hoppy double IPA I was shooting for, but it taste a little more like a pale ale. This is just my 8th brew (half of them were not very good either) so still learning about all the variables.

 

[jrgtr42]

What was your OG and FG?
That right there will tell whether you were underattenuated. FWIW, in my experience, underpitching doesn't usually cause underattenuation, it's more time that it takes to get going, and occasionally a bit of off-flavors, not really sweetness.

 

[EasyBrew]

What was your OG and FG?
That right there will tell whether you were underattenuated. FWIW, in my experience, underpitching doesn't usually cause underattenuation, it's more time that it takes to get going, and occasionally a bit of off-flavors, not really sweetness.

O.G. 1.07
F.G. 1.015

The first batch took almost 4 days to get going so I took that as a possible sign of being under pitched. The second batch started fermenting day 2

 

[LarMoeCur]

Well that's 78% attenuation. Which makes me think it's not a yeast issue. Is it a sweet but off tasting flavor? It sure sounds like Acetaldehyde to me. Any hint of green apple flavor? Or Cider like sweetness?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

1.3 lb United Kingdom Carastan 30/37
1.3 lb American Carapils...

My original gravity was 1.070 (target was 1.069) and final gravity was 1.015 (target was 1.014).

Those gravity numbers look fine - but 2.6lb of (Carastan+Carapils) would be high for even a toffee-ish British bitter, it's way too much for this style of thing. That's where your sweetness is coming from - just try tasting some of the raw grain. Knock them down by 2/3, or even eliminate them altogether if you're looking for a dry beer.

Something else to look at is mash temperature, it wants to be on the low side.

 

[jigtwins]

I would look at the 15+% Crystal/dextrin malt. If you like dry ipa's. That's where I would start. Drop the carapils and reduce the crystal to 5% or less. Add more base malt to replace .

 

[Rhaop]

I’ve used upwards of 2.6lbs of cara malts in one of my early ipa’s that is guaranteed your sweetness issue

 

[myndflyte]

As others have said, the cara malts are pretty high for an IPA and I think that's the problem. Dropping them down should help. Also, you may want to look into adding some sugar to your grain bill and that can actually help dry it out a bit.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I run .5 lbs of carapils in a 5 gallon batch and I notice it. over 2 lbs of cara malts....wow that would be like a sugar bomb to me.

 

[EnglishAndy]

15% caramel malt is what's causing it. No question about that.