IPA hop additions

[mauri_sarasvuo]

I am brewing my first IPA and I'm wondering about the hop additions. This is my recipe:

2.1kg (4.63lbs) - pale ale
1kg (2.21lbs) - golden promise
0.2kg (0.45lbs) - toffiried oats
0.1kg (0.22lbs) - dextrine malt
Lallemand BRY-97 west coast ale yeast

Batch size is 13l (3.43gallon).

I have some El Dorado, Citra and HS Evergreen hops and this is the initial timings and amounts I planned to add them:

7g (0.25oz) - Citra 60min
13g (0.46oz) - El Dorado 30min
13g (0.46oz) - HS Evergreen 10min
15g (0.53oz) - HS Evergreen dry hop for a few days

Do these timings and amounts look sensible or am I way off? I'm looking for a bit more juicy IPA with with fairly low bitterness.

 

[rburrelli]

For low bitterness many are abandoning a 60 minute altogether. Maybe try it at 30 minutes.
Not familiar with Evergreen hops so not much to add.

 

[AlexKay]

You're not getting much from your expensive aroma hops with 60 and 30-minute additions. Instead, try bittering at 15 minutes, a hop stand (cool the wort to ~150 and then throw the hops in for 10 minutes before cooling further), and a dry hop.

I do use a 60-minute addition in my bitter IPAs, but I use Magnum for it, and save the Citra for 15 minutes or less.

 

[Teufelhunde]

You're not getting much from your expensive aroma hops with 60 and 30-minute additions. Instead, try bittering at 15 minutes, a hop stand (cool the wort to ~150 and then throw the hops in for 10 minutes before cooling further), and a dry hop.

I do use a 60-minute addition in my bitter IPAs, but I use Magnum for it, and save the Citra for 15 minutes or less.

^^THIS^^^

Use Magnum or Nugget for the bittering hops. Both have high acid content so you don't need much, and they are usually cheaper than your good flavor/aroma hops....

 

[wepeeler]

Sounds like you're shooting for a softly bittered East Coast juicy hazy. As mentioned before, skip Citra and El Dorado so early in the boil. Both are great flavor and aroma hops and would be wasted so early on.

For an East Coast Hazy ipa, I'd go no bittering hops and everything late in the boil. Maybe a small 5 min addition, then a longer whirlpool addition. Maybe 2 oz total at 180F for 20 min 1 Citra: 1 El Dorado: 1 Evergreen. Then a 2-3oz DH. Citra + El Dorado.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Do these timings and amounts look sensible or am I way off? I'm looking for a bit more juicy IPA with with fairly low bitterness.

In a 5 gallon batch I would expect 6 to 8 oz of hops in an IPA, so 4.2 to 5.6 oz in your batch. You have 1.7 oz. Now that can make a good beer, but probably not one that somebody would call a "juicy IPA." (for your size batch, I would use around 8 oz or more for a NEIPA style beer).

I am not sure if Deschutes’ Fresh Squeezed IPA is close to what you are aiming for. If so, you can find some clone recipes online and adapt that hopping schedule to your hops. I am looking at the AHA version and, for a 5 gallon batch, it lists 0.5 oz at 60 min, 2 oz at 15 min, 1 oz steep, and 2 oz dry hop (of mostly Citra and Mosaic with Nugget at 60 minutes).

 

[mauri_sarasvuo]

For low bitterness many are abandoning a 60 minute altogether. Maybe try it at 30 minutes.
Not familiar with Evergreen hops so not much to add.

You're not getting much from your expensive aroma hops with 60 and 30-minute additions. Instead, try bittering at 15 minutes, a hop stand (cool the wort to ~150 and then throw the hops in for 10 minutes before cooling further), and a dry hop.

I do use a 60-minute addition in my bitter IPAs, but I use Magnum for it, and save the Citra for 15 minutes or less.

In a 5 gallon batch I would expect 6 to 8 oz of hops in an IPA, so 4.2 to 5.6 oz in your batch. You have 1.7 oz. Now that can make a good beer, but probably not one that somebody would call a "juicy IPA." (for your size batch, I would use around 8 oz or more for a NEIPA style beer).

I am not sure if Deschutes’ Fresh Squeezed IPA is close to what you are aiming for. If so, you can find some clone recipes online and adapt that hopping schedule to your hops. I am looking at the AHA version and, for a 5 gallon batch, it lists 0.5 oz at 60 min, 2 oz at 15 min, 1 oz steep, and 2 oz dry hop (of mostly Citra and Mosaic with Nugget at 60 minutes).

Thanks for the advice. I abondoned the 60 and 30-minute additions and took some inspiration from a Deschutes’ Fresh Squeezed IPA clone recipe.

This is how I have it now:
22g (0.78oz) - Citra 15min
20g (0.7oz) - El Dorado 15min
25g (0.89oz) - HS Evergreen 10min
25g (0.89oz) - HS Evergreen dry hop 5days
25g (0.89oz) - El Dorado dry hop 5days

According to Brewer's Friend this gives me 74 IBU. Would this be too bitter or is the calculation a bit skewed since I have no early hop additions?

 

[LostHopper]

I'm sure that will be tasty.
With my primitive system there is a lot going on at 10-15 min (chiller into pot for sanitizing, whirlfloc, yeast nutrient-if I remember) so my hopping for IPAs has migrated to bittering at 45 min with Centennial, Magnum or Chinook (use less when you boil it longer), all other hops are at flameout (hop stand at around 160-180) and dry hop. I abandoned all the 20 min-10 min- 5 min additions in IPAs regardless of coast.

 

[Gdenny]

I'm sure that will be tasty.
With my primitive system there is a lot going on at 10-15 min (chiller into pot for sanitizing, whirlfloc, yeast nutrient-if I remember) so my hopping for IPAs has migrated to bittering at 45 min with Centennial, Magnum or Chinook (use less when you boil it longer), all other hops are at flameout (hop stand at around 160-180) and dry hop. I abandoned all the 20 min-10 min- 5 min additions in IPAs regardless of coast.

There's an argument to be made for those late boil additions (15, 10, 5) for the middle ground palate flavors that do not constitute either Bitter or Nose. What many describe as "Juicy" is often mostly an Intense Nose with a soft malt sweetness and an absence of Bitter.

 

[wepeeler]

Thanks for the advice. I abondoned the 60 and 30-minute additions and took some inspiration from a Deschutes’ Fresh Squeezed IPA clone recipe.

This is how I have it now:
22g (0.78oz) - Citra 15min
20g (0.7oz) - El Dorado 15min
25g (0.89oz) - HS Evergreen 10min
25g (0.89oz) - HS Evergreen dry hop 5days
25g (0.89oz) - El Dorado dry hop 5days

According to Brewer's Friend this gives me 74 IBU. Would this be too bitter or is the calculation a bit skewed since I have no early hop additions?

I'd drop the 15 and 10 to 5 or flameout. WP for about 20 min at 180F.

 

[LostHopper]

There's an argument to be made for those late boil additions (15, 10, 5) for the middle ground palate flavors that do not constitute either Bitter or Nose. What many describe as "Juicy" is often mostly an Intense Nose with a soft malt sweetness and an absence of Bitter.

No argument here. Depends on your goal and the level of palate sophistication.

The OP originally mentioned wanting " more juicy + low bitterness" and ended up with a calculated IBU of 74. I still think moving some of those hops to flameout or 180F would achieve his stated goal especially if this is his first IPA. Start simple, evaluate the result and adjust as indicated for future batches.

 

[Jag75]

Agreed. If one is looking for juicy IPA (NEIPA), 74 IBU is too bitter . IMO that's more incline with a WCIPA. I shoot for 30-40 IBU in my NEIPA , with back loaded hops and WP at 170f .

 

[mauri_sarasvuo]

Just updating how it turned out.

I decided to follow this hop addition schedule:

22g (0.78oz) - Citra 15min
20g (0.7oz) - El Dorado 15min
25g (0.89oz) - HS Evergreen 10min
25g (0.89oz) - HS Evergreen dry hop 5days
25g (0.89oz) - El Dorado dry hop 5days

Now it has been conditioning for couple of weeks and it turned out pretty good. It has some bitterness but it wasn't too much. During the first week it was nearly perfect with the amount of sweet floral and fruity aromas but after a couple of weeks they have become a bit too mild compared to what I was aiming for.

I am planning on doing another similar batch in the near future so I will try to do some changes to the schedule in order to get it more juicier.

Still it turned out to be much better for my first IPA styled beer than I expected and I will gladly drink it.

 

[NSMikeD]

since this is your first IPA brew - it's somewhat ambitious, shooting for juicy hazy IPAs. Depending on your set up and process, it may oxidize quickly (darken) and hazy/juicy IPAs are notorious for fading quickly. It's like threading a needle with no oxygen exposure and hopping without getting a "hop bite".

Keep at it, and read up on low/no oxygen methods to go along with your appreciation for late hop additions. Certainly a family of styles worth mastering.

I would also suggest making a Sierra Nevada clone (while a pale ale, IMO, it can also be an American IPA). Not a juicy/hazy IPA, but IMO an easier beer to make which will help you develop your brew methods, yet a beer that does celebrate American hops and balances bitterness, citrus flavor and aroma.

 

[mauri_sarasvuo]

since this is your first IPA brew - it's somewhat ambitious, shooting for juicy hazy IPAs. Depending on your set up and process, it may oxidize quickly (darken) and hazy/juicy IPAs are notorious for fading quickly. It's like threading a needle with no oxygen exposure and hopping without getting a "hop bite".

Keep at it, and read up on low/no oxygen methods to go along with your appreciation for late hop additions. Certainly a family of styles worth mastering.

I would also suggest making a Sierra Nevada clone (while a pale ale, IMO, it can also be an American IPA). Not a juicy/hazy IPA, but IMO an easier beer to make which will help you develop your brew methods, yet a beer that does celebrate American hops and balances bitterness, citrus flavor and aroma.

I read a lot about juicy IPAs being vulnerable to oxidizing prior to brewing so I had been putting off brewing one for some time. Still currently at 17 days of bottle conditioning it shows no signs of oxidization even though I just bottled it and there surely was some oxygen exposure. Or is the reducements in floral/fruity aromas a sign of oxidation?

I actually made a Sierra Nevada clone last summer and it turned out pretty good too (in some ways I liked my own clone more than the actual beer )

But I will certainly keep practicing with these types of beers.

 

[Redhouse Brewing]

I’ve made lots of NEIPAs in the past and tried many different ways of dry hopping. Currently, I do 2 dry hop additions: the first one day 2! Of fermentation for biotransformation The 2nd one is based upon a suggestion from a well known brewer: After fermentation is complete, I soft crash for 2 days to 50°F, then dry hop for 2 days at 50°F and then cold crash for 24 hours. Closed transfer to purged keg. I purge by completely filling with proper dosed star san mixture until overflowing and put lid on. Use co2 to empty the keg. Fill empty keg with 10psi, insert keg and pull prv to get remaining out. This process along with using thiolized yeast and an ounce of phantasm powder at WP with the WP hops for 20 mins @ 160 degrees has given me the best results with aroma and flavor that lays the entire keg.
I also stopped using flaked oats/wheat and replaced with the malted versions. A typical grain bill that I currently use is: pale 2 row, spelt malt (about 15-20%, helps with pillowy mouthfeel), oat malt (12-15%), and a little honey malt (very sparingly - no more than 3%). I like FG at 1.012 - 1.015 range.

Water target is: Ca 50 Mg 10, Na 20, Cl 100, SO4 50, HCO 0