International Shipping & Ordering: Stories/Tips/Tricks/Advice

[blue_bleeder]

Alright TBers, I need some advice. If this is posted in another thread I apologize. I looked (lazily) and did a search. I have seen posts about using USPS for this but not a lot of talk about tips or dos/don'ts.

To be honest, I know I am going whole hog here. I started with the locals4locals thing. Knocked out 6 trades so far (all locals) including a 2nd trade with a great guy. I plan on trading with all of them again. I also have a couple of trades in the works. I have even had the chance to begin a thread in what has become a talkbeer staple, the "give away" beer. So now here I am thinking, "this is getting crazy Barry, you are getting carried away." Maybe, but I sure am having a blast while I am doing it and "meeting" some great people in a great community.

So, I am looking for comments/pro-tips from peeps that have actually done the deed internationally and can help me do it too. Thanks.

 

[domtronzero]

Ship USPS. Declare the goods as "collectible glassware" valued at $20. Fill out the customs form at the post office. Pack extra good and be prepared to spend more money on shipping than most of the beer is worth.

It usually takes some time (a couple weeks and sometimes more, depending on which country you're posting to). But be patient and good luck.

 

[domtronzero]

Oh and make sure you declare the goods as a gift.

 

[JohnfromPurdue]

Here is the advice claaark13 (LYMI) gave me about a year ago when I started shipping International...

The first thing you need to do is to setup a USPS account online. How many bottles are you shipping? Flat rate work well if you're shipping between 1-3 bottles. Beyond that, you'll need to use your own box. You'll be able to price everything even before putting together an account, but the non flat rate boxes will be something like 5% cheaper after you setup an online a count. Totally worth it. The only downside is that you'll either need to over-ballpark your weight when doing it online, or you'll need to use an accurate scale. I use the one in our mail room at work and I still always add 2oz to feel better. If you get there and their scale says you're an ounce heavy, you'll have to ****ing do it all over again.

The big benefit of doing it online is that you walk up there and basically drop the box off. The forms print ahead of time, you just give them to the teller and they put it on there and you walk away. There are 4 forms that print, all the same, but you keep one and the post office keeps one, so only 2 actually get sent. If they ever ask anything when you drop it off, just say you're shipping some nice glasses.

Filling out the forms the first time online is confusing. You have to say collectible glassware on the top part of the page, and I think then again when describing the object. It'll make more sense when you see it. I always put the correct number of glasses I'm sending up to about 6, then I just use 6. I divide the total weight rounded down, assign it to the glassware. Then I divide $20-25 by the number of glasses to make it a nice figure. Again, it'll make sense when you do it.

Honestly, I prefer international trades to domestic. You get better quality beers and those guys generally don't put their dicks in your ass.

If you had any questions, let me know.

Ah, and don't forget to pack the **** out of the box. Just assume it will be dropped 5 times at best. And always try to remember to write the tracking number like 5 times on there. I generally write the receiving address as well just to be safe.....maybe even twice.

I've shipped international 4 times now and his advice was pretty spot on.

 

[claaark13]

To be honest, I know I am going whole hog here. I started with the locals4locals thing. Knocked out 6 trades so far (all locals) including a 2nd trade with a great guy. I plan on trading with all of them again. I also have a couple of trades in the works.

You may want to get a little more into trading before you do international stuff. The stakes are all around a lot higher, and it somehow seems to get murky in determining who is to blame if a box gets damaged/lost. I've personally lost x3 bottles of Fou' Foune, and received 2 other boxes that looked like the Hulk threw them through the wall of a building.

There isn't a set number of trades you should do before international. I mean, if you think about it, every trade that the Euro guys do is pretty much an international trade. I would just recommend against it until you feel like you're absolutely comfortable paying that much for shipping and willing to accommodate the other party if something goes wrong. If you're there now, enjoy your first international trade. Some of those Euro guys are great. Even the ones who are really just Canadians posing as Dutchmen.

 

[JohnfromPurdue]

Also, realize that for a 12 bottle shipper you're looking at around $110. It's not cheap but it's certainly worth it if you want the gueuzez.

And if you don't have a scale take it to UPS or Fedex to get weighed before you complete the customs form.

 

[blue_bleeder]

We ship out between 50-100 boxes a day via UPS and FedEx and have a USPS account (they actually come here to pick it up) but it is all domestic shipping so the USPS international is going to be different for sure. Not worried about accurate weight, got that covered. Looked at the shipping costs and it looks like a 15 lbs box is going to run me about $89ish or so to Sweden. Not sure how heavy the box will be yet, still working it out with HenrikO. But he encouraged me to ask others here about the best shipping practices on this side of the pond. Didn't see a whole lot on this topic here so I thought I would start asking. So far I am getting a lot of GREAT information. Just need to make sure I don't fuq it up.

 

[ForkAndSpoonOperator]

I have nothing useful to contribute, I just love seeing noobs doing it right and oldheads being helpful. Keep up the good work, everyone.

 

[Lefty Hyzer]

If u can, use a styro shipper and still bubble wrap the bottles well. Everything else sounds good. Gl OP

 

[blue_bleeder]

Everything is boxed. Every bottle is boxed and it's all loaded in a box in a box. I mean that **** is tight. You could drop it 3 stories and it would be fine. The box is pretty big and about 30lbs. (I might have gone overboard on the extras) Going to fill out the customs forms today and then take it over to the post office for launch. Any last words of wisdom? Encouragement? I'm nervous but I think I got it all covered. Cheers fellas and thanks for all of your help.

 

[Jeffo1]

You'll do fine. This really isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

Fill in the customs form as follows:

GIFT
Collectible Glassware
$20

Boxes going out of the US usually aren't much of an issue. It's perfectly legal to ship beer here in Europe, and our customs guys just want tax money and that's it. Boxes going into the US are the ones you need to be more careful with. I would suggest using styro shippers going into the US (we can't buy them in Europe; ship a styro to an established Euro trader first and let him send it back to you), and keeping the weight under 10KG. I've only ever had one box in over 75 to the States get picked off, and it was the only one over 10KG. Not that correlation means causation, but a 35 LB box worth $20 is much less believable than a 20 LB box worth $20. You could just increase the value and pay the taxes, but that means closer inspection of the box, which you don't want.

A 20 LB box costs about $75 or so with USPS. That's what, two boxes across country? It's not as bad as everyone makes it sound.

Have fun,
Jeff

 

[blue_bleeder]

You'll do fine. This really isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

Fill in the customs form as follows:

GIFT
Collectible Glassware
$20

Boxes going out of the US usually aren't much of an issue. It's perfectly legal to ship beer here in Europe, and our customs guys just want tax money and that's it. Boxes going into the US are the ones you need to be more careful with. I would suggest using styro shippers going into the US (we can't buy them in Europe; ship a styro to an established Euro trader first and let him send it back to you), and keeping the weight under 10KG. I've only ever had one box in over 75 to the States get picked off, and it was the only one over 10KG. Not that correlation means causation, but a 35 LB box worth $20 is much less believable than a 20 LB box worth $20. You could just increase the value and pay the taxes, but that means closer inspection of the box, which you don't want.

A 20 LB box costs about $75 or so with USPS. That's what, two boxes across country? It's not as bad as everyone makes it sound.

Have fun,
Jeff

Well the box ended up being 43lbs. So we will see what happens I guess...... It is double and triple boxed so it is pretty bullet proof. Thanks for the input...

 

[stakem1]

Well the box ended up being 43lbs. So we will see what happens I guess...... It is double and triple boxed so it is pretty bullet proof. Thanks for the input...

Oh lord...good luck.

 

[MULDER1010]

Sent a 31LB box to myself from Seattle to Sydney. Crazy expensive. Nearly $200 AU to do do so but 12 bottles is 12 bottles I did not have to carry on the plane back to Sydney and pay Australian taxes on it.
Yes it is illegal to send beer by USPS but USPS is flat broke and the beer is really not crossing US states. So no harm, no foul.
As somebody else said it is the box coming to the US is the issue and USPS is not a good caretaker of boxes. Should be fine but to be forewarned is to be forearmed

 

[JohnfromPurdue]

Well the box ended up being 43lbs.

As I found out with my last shipment, don't exceed 44lbs unless you want the price to jump $50. I pulled out a Speedway Stout to get it to 43lbs. I figured an extra Speedway Stout wasn't worth $60.

 

[blue_bleeder]

As I found out with my last shipment, don't exceed 44lbs unless you want the price to jump $50. I pulled out a Speedway Stout to get it to 43lbs. I figured an extra Speedway Stout wasn't worth $60.

It ended up being $129 for the 43 lbs to Sweden...

You only live once.

 

[HenrikO]

It ended up being $129 for the 43 lbs to Sweden...

You only live once.

YOLO indeed!
As a point of comparison, for me shipping the same weight from Sweden to the US would run me about $310...
International shipping. It ain't for the faint of heart or wallet. But traders gotta trade!

 

[Mista]

I try finding regulars willing to send 20 kg back every time to lower freight cost as much as possible. I bag each bottle just in case there are leaks and toss them in a 12x styro shipper with some pasta (noise makers to mask the slushing noise) and then request they fill the shipper and send it back. I also only use the shipper one time for international shipments and then reuse it for domestic shipments. For whatever reason USPS destroys boxes!

Here is a rate table for international priority mail

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/notice123.htm#1231081

Belgium is zone 5

Here is a list of all the other countries

http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immpg.htm

Hope that helps - in anyone from europe wants to go $4$ on bottles and 20 kg msg me and i'm sure we can work something out.

Cheers

 

[Duffman929]

According to tracking, a shipment to me is sitting at the large facility in Forest Park, IL and hasn't moved in 2 weeks. Local post office doesn't have it. 2 weeks seems like a long time to just sit there.

 

[Mista]

According to tracking, a shipment to me is sitting at the large facility in Forest Park, IL and hasn't moved in 2 weeks. Local post office doesn't have it. 2 weeks seems like a long time to just sit there.

customs?

yeah that is the only down side of using USPS - their tracking sucks and are notorious for losing packages

 

[Duffman929]

customs?

yeah that is the only down side of using USPS - their tracking sucks and are notorious for losing packages

Not sure. I made a claim to find out info and they had nothing helpful to tell me. I just hope it didn't cause bottles to freeze, as we are closing in on 6 weeks to get to me!

 

[blue_bleeder]

Mine already landed in Sweden!! Watching this package travel has been like watching a thriller on the big screen. On the edge of my seat. Just really glad it made it there. I will feel much better when the pictures are posted up here in the hauls thread. Then I will be all

 

[HenrikO]

Since you've all been following this you might like to know that the package made the journey across the Atlantic with no trouble. Much Colorado joy was spread in Sweden-land. blue_bleeder is a stand-up trader and he has broken his international cherry with full honors.

 

[blue_bleeder]

Yay!!!!

 

[blue_bleeder]

My international box from HenrikO should be to me tomorrow. Talk about a journey!! This thing left Sweden, hit Denmark, took a small vacation in Germany and France. Landed in Memphis and is now in Denver waiting for the long drive to me....

 

[blue_bleeder]

It actually landed yesterday. Got to me a day early. And HenrikO used FedEx.

http://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/official-hauls-thread.126/page-146#post-170544

 

[Gene1]

Stickied!

 

[stakem1]

Going to tack on an experience I had last year. Perhaps someone might find it useful information.

I had an international box get flagged for inspection because of it's size/weight. In the event something similar happens to you, here is what you can do to reclaim it.

January 14th.
An incomplete box shows up at my house. The beer has been removed, some of the glassware is there but it is a huge box, much too big for a couple of pieces of glassware thrown loosely into a box with some bubblewrap. Some neon tape on the outside shows that my box has been opened and inspected by US customs/border protection.

January 29th.
Page 1 of enclosed letter: dated January 24th indicates customs has seized property that I might have an interest in. It was seized on January 10th under the provisions of USC blah blah blah importation contrary to law blah blah blah (all spirituous, vinous, malted, fermented, or other intoxiicating liquors of any kind are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried through the mails (alcoholic beverages nonmailable.)

The sezied property is described as "15 bottles." The appraised domestic value is $150.00

Under provisions of blah blah blah you may petition for relief from the above liability. Please note the enclosed notice of information for claimants explains your options with regards to remission of the forfeiture of seized property. If you do wish to petition for relief from the forfeiture, you must provide an express agreement to defer judicial or administrative forfeiture proceedings until completion of the administrative process. Completion of the enclosed Election of Proceedings form will provide this express agreement.

All petions must be filed within 30 days of the date of this letter to the following address: blah blah blah.

Page 2 You are herby notified that the merchandise, conveyances, monetary instruments or property shown on the attached documents were seized for vioation of the customs laws or other enforiced or administered services as indicated.

The following options are available to you to resolve this matter:
1. Take no action
2. Judicial Proceedings
3. Administrative relief

Page 3 includes a waiver that must be filled out pertaining to customs/border protection not being held accountable for any damages.

*** I filled out the waiver and filed for administrative relief after having a conversation with a person at customs.

February 11th.
I get a letter dated Feb 8th from customs that declares my petition is being reviewed for administrative relief.
I am required to send them a copy of my drivers license, a cashiers check for the amount owed for tax and forfeiture, my telephone number and more paperwork that was included that needed filled out.

March 6th.
The box appears at my house.

In conclusion, I dont know what else to type here without directly taking pictures of everything I got in the mail. A bunch of it is hub-bub that is meaningless and did not pertain to my situation.

I guess all I can say is that if anyone gets stuck in this situation and what i provided above doesn't help, feel free to send me a message and I will try and guide you through it the best I can.

 

[NYCBUCKEYE]

Hey stakem - thanks for this information. Out of curiosity, would you mind mentioning the amount of tax you had to pay?

 

[stakem1]

Hey stakem - thanks for this information. Out of curiosity, would you mind mentioning the amount of tax you had to pay?

It was something totally silly like $3.86.

 

[NYCBUCKEYE]

It was something totally silly like $3.86.

Ha - it cost exponentially more than $3.86 to purchase, print, ship and process a certified check for that amount. At least you got your beer back! Good thing they valued the contents @ $150...

Cheers and thanks for the reply

 

[stakem1]

Ha - it cost exponentially more than $3.86 to purchase, print, ship and process a certified check for that amount. At least you got your beer back! Good thing they valued the contents @ $150...

Cheers and thanks for the reply

not to mention the fact that they also spent a nice chunk of coin to over-night me the (40 pound?) box...thats what makes me shake my head and laugh at the entire situation

 

[mrk_d]

I'm about to send out my first international trade and I'd love some feedback since I'm scared shitless of losing ~$200 worth of beer.

I need to send these (+ a bottle of Pliny not pictured):

So far I have this double-wall box. It's a pretty tight fit, but I plan on bubble wrapping everything so everything is padded and can't move:

Then I plan on double-boxing it like this:

Does that look safe? My only worry is that it's a pretty heavy and large box, so calling it "glassware" sounds fairly suspicious to me. I'm thinking of maybe shipping two small boxes instead so that if I lose one I don't lose everything, but is that overly paranoid? Any feedback is much appreciated!

 

[HenrikO]

I'm about to send out my first international trade and I'd love some feedback since I'm scared shitless of losing ~$200 worth of beer.

I need to send these (+ a bottle of Pliny not pictured):

So far I have this double-wall box. It's a pretty tight fit, but I plan on bubble wrapping everything so everything is padded and can't move:

Then I plan on double-boxing it like this:

Does that look safe? My only worry is that it's a pretty heavy and large box, so calling it "glassware" sounds fairly suspicious to me. I'm thinking of maybe shipping two small boxes instead so that if I lose one I don't lose everything, but is that overly paranoid? Any feedback is much appreciated!

Where are you shipping to? Many countries (Sweden and the UK) auto-flag packages that are over a certain weight - usually over 20 kgs (metric). This means that even if a package is listed as a gift and with a (claimed) value that is below the customs limit, if it's too heavy they may spot-check it. Happened to me once. Your stuff looks like it will be well over 20 kgs so from that point of view sending two smaller packages would probably be safer - but also more expensive.

As for what you write on the package, IMHO most people who will see your package couldn't care less. I've learned that in Sweden, it's not even real customs officials checking incoming international packages, Customs have outsourced that to the post office who have outsourced it to a subcontractor, meaning that unless your customs slip actually says "heroin", "diamonds" or "uranium", the underpaid college kids handling the package just won't care.

YMMV depending on the destination, of course. UK and German customs are more observant, for example.

 

[mrk_d]

Where are you shipping to? Many countries (Sweden and the UK) auto-flag packages that are over a certain weight - usually over 20 kgs (metric). This means that even if a package is listed as a gift and with a (claimed) value that is below the customs limit, if it's too heavy they may spot-check it. Happened to me once. Your stuff looks like it will be well over 20 kgs so from that point of view sending two smaller packages would probably be safer - but also more expensive.

As for what you write on the package, IMHO most people who will see your package couldn't care less. I've learned that in Sweden, it's not even real customs officials checking incoming international packages, Customs have outsourced that to the post office who have outsourced it to a subcontractor, meaning that unless your customs slip actually says "heroin", "diamonds" or "uranium", the underpaid college kids handling the package just won't care.

YMMV depending on the destination, of course. UK and German customs are more observant, for example.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I'm sending to Belgium - any idea whether they flag heavy boxes? I would prefer to pay more for shipping and not have my box get lost or sent back, that's for sure!

 

[HenrikO]

I honestly have no idea about Belgium, I suggest asking your trade partner for advice (if you haven't done so already).

Since heavier packages are more difficult to handle and thus more prone to breakage, I'd definitely split that haul up in two shipments to be on the safe side.

Your general packing strategy with double-boxing and bubble wrap seems fine, you just need to make sure the bottles can't knock into each other and are reasonably clear of/insulated from the edges of the box.

Good luck with your first international trade!

 

[kevanb]

Hopefully the folks in this thread will have an answer for me here. I recently placed an order through Etre and for the first time it was shipped directly to Chicago, typically it comes in through NYC and then promptly to my door. However, it's been "processed through sort facility" for some time now (~10 days) which is unusual for any of my foreign orders, but I've heard that Chicago, typically, is terrible about getting things moved in a timely fashion. Is there a way I can call customs or the post office and ask about my package, without revealing the exact contents?

 

[mrk_d]

Hopefully the folks in this thread will have an answer for me here. I recently placed an order through Etre and for the first time it was shipped directly to Chicago, typically it comes in through NYC and then promptly to my door. However, it's been "processed through sort facility" for some time now (~10 days) which is unusual for any of my foreign orders, but I've heard that Chicago, typically, is terrible about getting things moved in a timely fashion. Is there a way I can call customs or the post office and ask about my package, without revealing the exact contents?

I'm in California, but my last Etre order had the same thing happen. I was sort of worried after a week or more of "processed through sort facility" but then it just showed up on my doorstep one day without a tracking update. I've heard USPS is bad about updating tracking from others as well so that's likely your problem.

 

[mrk_d]

I honestly have no idea about Belgium, I suggest asking your trade partner for advice (if you haven't done so already).

Since heavier packages are more difficult to handle and thus more prone to breakage, I'd definitely split that haul up in two shipments to be on the safe side.

Your general packing strategy with double-boxing and bubble wrap seems fine, you just need to make sure the bottles can't knock into each other and are reasonably clear of/insulated from the edges of the box.

Good luck with your first international trade!

Hey, just wanted to thank you again for your advice. I managed to fit everything into the box pictured, and it's sub-20 kg! I'm sending it off tomorrow, can't wait for it to land in Belgium and for the return box to hit.

 

[CypherEnigma]

I always try and use first use boxes(not reusing boxes that have been shipped/marked up already) when shipping internationally, I'm not sure if this is just my paranoia or genuinely helpful but I have not had any issues yet. All the other packing advice I have has been said to some extent already so I'll focus on some of the details. I've sent 4 boxes to the UK now with very different weights.

Box 1 50lbs - 9 days in transit - $220
Box 2 30lbs - 8 days in transit - $90
Box 3 40lbs - 8 days in transit - $160
Box 4 25lbs - 6 days in transit - $120

Only time I got grief from the PO worker was with box 3, she was more than a little incredulous to a 40lb box of collectible glassware being marked under $30. This shipment was during the holiday season so they were busy and she was pretty grumpy already. All boxes except 4 were double boxed. Box 1 was very close to exceeding the "girth" ceiling for USPS(108") why was in part why it was so expensive.

I hope this information is of some use to anyone who is looking to get started with international shipping.