Interesting lesson learned.

[Dougan]

Unique lesson I just learned that I'll share with you.

I usually get my grain and mill at at my LHBS. However, this past weekend, I was in another town and decided to check out their brew shop. They had Maris Otter, so, I got like 10 lbs of that milled there.

The grind was much finer at the new brew shop. Honestly, if I had to say, I'd say my local one is not fine enough, while the one there was too fine. I will note that my efficiency was 86% with the finer grind, which is something I accomplish maybe 20% of the time with the local shop's grind. Usually between 70 and 85.

But that's not my point. Usually, with my (picnic cooler) MLT setup, I heat the strike water up to 165, pour it in, stir everything up, and that gets me a solid 152 mash. This recipe I wanted to mash at 155 so I upped it to 168.

The finer ground grain clumped up like mad. It was much more than I experience with my local shop's ground grain. It took me so long to work out all of the clumps in my mash that by the time I got the lid closed on the mash tun, the temperature was 149 and I had to throw boiling water in there to get it up to 155 range, which I figured was good enough.

Since I will probably be switching between these brew shops 50/50 for the next few months, my new plan is to recalibrate my strike temperature, accounting for a 2 minute stirring after i pour in the strike water-- this two minutes will happen whether needed or not. That way I can always hit the same temps.

Figured I'd share, probably something not everybody has come up against.

 

[Noleafclover]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're only going for cracked grain here right. The idea is to expose the endosperm of the grain and allow the husk to act as a filter. A fine grind is bad. Make bread with that.

 

[abracadabra]

You kinda have 2 thought processes going here on the one hand a LHBS might want to make sure you don't end up with a stuck sparge get frustrated and quit brewing. On the other the higher efficiency you get from a finer milled grain is a nice plus as you get more sugar for the same or less money so the other LHBS may have that in mind. Or it just may be how the mills are set and they will adjust it on request. You can also mix in rice hulls to help with clumping and the potential for a stuck sparge.

In answer to noleaf some flour is inevitable or the mill is set with too large a gap. But yes that is the goal but the sacrifice is in efficiency of the extracted sugars

 

[Noleafclover]

In answer to noleaf some flour is inevitable or the mill is set with too large a gap. But yes that is the goal but the sacrifice is in efficiency of the extracted sugars

Yah it won't be perfect. Heck, my lhbs has the same damn mill I now have. And usually they had some high school senior/college kid grind the grain for me...

Prior to grinding my own grain I had my lhbs grind for me sometimes. But usually I was ordering a preground kit from Northernbrewer/Midwest Supplies/Austin Homebrew. Never had a problem with stuck sparges/efficiency w/ any of those kits even once.

 

[400d]

You kinda have 2 thought processes going here on the one hand a LHBS might want to make sure you don't end up with a stuck sparge get frustrated and quit brewing. On the other the higher efficiency you get from a finer milled grain is a nice plus as you get more sugar for the same or less money so the other LHBS may have that in mind. Or it just may be how the mills are set and they will adjust it on request. You can also mix in rice hulls to help with clumping and the potential for a stuck sparge.

In answer to noleaf some flour is inevitable or the mill is set with too large a gap. But yes that is the goal but the sacrifice is in efficiency of the extracted sugars

does this mean that if I put finer milled grain + BIAB I get 99% efficiency?

 

[Dougan]

You kinda have 2 thought processes going here on the one hand a LHBS might want to make sure you don't end up with a stuck sparge get frustrated and quit brewing. On the other the higher efficiency you get from a finer milled grain is a nice plus as you get more sugar for the same or less money so the other LHBS may have that in mind.

Yeah, I think I liked the local one's crush a little better, since I didn't have to sit there and de-clump crap, and worry about stuck sparge (sparge did take a lot longer, but didn't get stuck). It's not like the efficiency gain was from 50% to 80% or something.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Definitely differences between LHBSs. Even the big boys. And not only by preference, but from equipment.

I go to Northern Brewer usually for grain. They have a very nice mill, and it's set at 0.045. They have a little sign next to the mill, and it says to adjust to 0.038 for wheat, but 0.045 for barley. I get a nice fine grind with that.

Then I go to Midwest Supplies one day for grain. They have the same mill as NB, but it's set at 0.035. I'm like, no way is THAT right, but they don't have a little sign, so I decide to adjust it to the 0.045 recommended by NB. Turns out, on the exact same mill, 0.045 at Midwest is enough to allow grain to FALL through. You get almost no crush. I had to adjust down to 0.032 to get the same crush I got at NB with 0.045. I ask the midwest guys, and they say yeah, 0.33 is usually about where we put it.

Now, I always check the crush before I dump 10 lbs though. NB actually encourages you to crush 1/4 of 2-row before and after you crush your grain to clean the rollers, so I dump some 2-row in and look at what comes out. (Midwest doesn't ask you to do this, but I do it anyway). I trust my eyes more than I trust that adjustment knob.

 

[chefmike]

Unique lesson I just learned that I'll share with you.

I usually get my grain and mill at at my LHBS. However, this past weekend, I was in another town and decided to check out their brew shop. They had Maris Otter, so, I got like 10 lbs of that milled there.

The finer ground grain clumped up like mad. It was much more than I experience with my local shop's ground grain. It took me so long to work out all of the clumps in my mash that by the tim

You used Maris Otter before? It is usually cited as a VERY clumpy grain. It LOVES to makes big dough balls. I would evaluate the crush with another grain bill before you blame the clumps on the crush.

I crush pretty darn fine and have no trouble with doughballs...

 

[Dougan]

You used Maris Otter before? It is usually cited as a VERY clumpy grain. It LOVES to makes big dough balls. I would evaluate the crush with another grain bill before you blame the clumps on the crush.

I crush pretty darn fine and have no trouble with doughballs...

Probably the maris otter then. Although it was still crushed a lot finer, too. Could be a combo.

 

[shimbii]

You used Maris Otter before? It is usually cited as a VERY clumpy grain. It LOVES to makes big dough balls.

I actually experienced this for the first time this past week. I just did 2 batches in the same day. One with 2 row, the other with MO. Both grains had the same crush and I initially had some doughballs with the MO but the 2 row batch had zero lumps.