Installing a pipe into a cast iron down pipe

[cyclogenesis]

Ok, I may need to draw pictures in the end but I have a cast iron pipe that comes from my toilet upstairs through into the basement where I am going to be building my e-Brewery.

I want to be able to put in a basin for cleaning and water runoff. Is there any way to cut into the cast iron pipe and tap it to install a PVC pipe to the basin?

 

[onthekeg]

You will have to cut the pipe, and use PVC with a 1 1/2" elbow. Two of the Fernco couplers will attach the PVC to the cast iron.

 

[cyclogenesis]

Thanks... I guess you need to brace the pipe some how?

What are peoples thoughts of DIY versus cost of a plumber?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Thanks... I guess you need to brace the pipe some how?

What are peoples thoughts of DIY versus cost of a plumber?

DIY will be a lot cheaper

Link 4" Feernco Tee fitting http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQQZEI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[pickles]

Cutting cast iron will either require a special "cracker" ( which can be rented), a cold chisel (skill and patience), or a carbide sawzall blade. The cracker is easy, the other two are not. Also be sure to support the pipe above the cut very, very well. The leaded joints can easily fail with all that weight hanging and you'll have a mess on your hands.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What are peoples thoughts of DIY versus cost of a plumber?

I'd be happy to tell you, but I charge $150 an hour with a 2 hour minimum.

 

[pickles]

DIY will be a lot cheaper

Only if you know what your doing.

 

[cyclogenesis]

Cutting cast iron will either require a special "cracker" ( which can be rented), a cold chisel (skill and patience), or a carbide sawzall blade. The cracker is easy, the other two are not. Also be sure to support the pipe above the cut very, very well. The leaded joints can easily fail with all that weight hanging and you'll have a mess on your hands.

Yep..

I saw there is a device like a chain with blades in it you can use?

 

[cyclogenesis]

I'd be happy to tell you, but I charge $150 an hour with a 2 hour minimum.

EggsCrackly...

My desire to DIY comes from chatting to the plumber who did some emergency work when we bought the house (old people.... VERY blocked sewage pipes!) and asking how much it would cost to replace the Cast Iron with PVC... Something like $10,000

 

[onthekeg]

DIY will be a lot cheaper

Link 4" Feernco Tee fitting http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQQZEI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I didn't know they made this style coupler now! Easy fix.

 

[the_bird]

EggsCrackly...

My desire to DIY comes from chatting to the plumber who did some emergency work when we bought the house (old people.... VERY blocked sewage pipes!) and asking how much it would cost to replace the Cast Iron with PVC... Something like $10,000

See, that's why I love living where I do. I've had plumbers come in and do all kinds of work, and it's usually just a couple hundred bucks.

This kind of job, I'd hire out. It's not going to be $10k, you aren't replacing all the cast iron (going into the walls), you're just having to cut it and tap in. In any case, get a couple plumbers over to give an estimate before making up your mind.

 

[cyclogenesis]

See, that's why I love living where I do. I've had plumbers come in and do all kinds of work, and it's usually just a couple hundred bucks.

This kind of job, I'd hire out. It's not going to be $10k, you aren't replacing all the cast iron (going into the walls), you're just having to cut it and tap in. In any case, get a couple plumbers over to give an estimate before making up your mind.

Yep.. that is the plan... But I do like to go in prepared!

Admittedly the plumber I called was a random one, I now "know a guy" who is doing a lot of other work for me and I will probably get one of his mates over...

 

[Dirtie]

Is there any visible connectors in the piping that you can get to like couplings, elbows or tees? If so then I would go from there and it would be a lot easier than cutting your pipe but I might have another solution for you if you don't have access to anything like that. also is it 1/2" I'm pretty sure it is.

 

[Dirtie]

If you have to cut your pipe the cut about a 3" section where you want to come down from. At ace where I work we have a fitting that has compression couplings on each end and tees down to a 1/2" FPT. These things are really easy to use just cut the pipe slide this thing on and tighten it down. Inset the threaded coupling and start running your plumbing. In the pics I have some 1/2 iron pipe to show you what I mean but yours will obviously not be threaded when you cut it. I know it will work and would only cost around 6 bucks if you already have a sawzall.

 

[the_bird]

I personally wouldn't be comfortable using a compression fitting on what sounds like the house's main plumbing drain. This is the main drain, right? Like five inches in diameter?

 

[Dirtie]

If its a drain then yeah he would have to do it a different way but I understood he wanted to supply it with water. But no most houses use 3" sometimes 4" if it needs the extra flow. In that case the hose clamp coupling would work as shown in a previous post. Those compression couplings are used in many applications and would hold up well enough to any typical pressure found in residential plumbing.

 

[cyclogenesis]

I personally wouldn't be comfortable using a compression fitting on what sounds like the house's main plumbing drain. This is the main drain, right? Like five inches in diameter?

This is one of two stacks.. but yeah, ~5"

 

[Dirtie]

I still don't believe it's 5" but what do I know. Anyways if I were you and you are looking for a way to drain I wouldn't tap into the main drain. I would simply just run a 1 1/2" line outside and let it flow. I mean how much would you be using it anyways.

 

[the_bird]

So, the OP wants to install a basin/sink where he can clean up his gear, and instead of actually hooking into his house's plumbing, you're proposing that he just run a line outside and let it "drain" out into the open? Really? That's the advice I'm going to get at Ace Hardware?

FWIW, the cast iron stack in my house has an outside diameter of 4 1/2", which I'm pretty sure it more-or-less standard.

 

[Dirtie]

You're right.

 

[Reelale]

So, the OP wants to install a basin/sink where he can clean up his gear, and instead of actually hooking into his house's plumbing, you're proposing that he just run a line outside and let it "drain" out into the open? Really? That's the advice I'm going to get at Ace Hardware?

FWIW, the cast iron stack in my house has an outside diameter of 4 1/2", which I'm pretty sure it more-or-less standard.

Actually, a lot of places allow that. It's Grey Water. As long as it's not lavatory or kitchen waste, a septic system or sewer connect is not required.

 

[lschiavo]

Actually, a lot of places allow that. It's Grey Water. As long as it's not lavatory or kitchen waste, a septic system or sewer connect is not required.

But he's in the basement...how will it just drain outside without a pump?

 

[the_bird]

He's also in Chicago; probably not a good idea to just run the waste water into the driveway in January.

 

[Reelale]

But he's in the basement...how will it just drain outside without a pump?

I guess it won't. I was just commenting on Gray Water discharge. If there is no floor drain, he'll have to tap the sewer line from the commode.

 

[Reelale]

He's also in Chicago; probably not a good idea to just run the waste water into the driveway in January.

Definitely. A sodded yard or a plant bedding area makes a great leach field though. Need to check local codes. Some require a retention basin and leach lines. Way more trouble than a sewer tap.

 

[Dirtie]

Definitely. A sodded yard or a plant bedding area makes a great leach field though. Need to check local codes. Some require a retention basin and leach lines. Way more trouble than a sewer tap.

Where we're going, We don't need codes!!

 

[lschiavo]

I guess it won't. I was just commenting on Gray Water discharge. If there is no floor drain, he'll have to tap the sewer line from the commode.

Yeah, I should not have quoted you. Sorry.

I agree with you. All my brew water/etc. Goes straight out the side of my garage on the lawn. Grass loves it.

 

[Reelale]

Where we're going, We don't need codes!!

Ha!

Yeah, I should not have quoted you. Sorry.

I agree with you. All my brew water/etc. Goes straight out the side of my garage on the lawn. Grass loves it.

No problem. Mine does too. 1 1/2" drain line through the wall for a utility sink. Grass never looked greener.

 

[the_bird]

Yeah, I should not have quoted you. Sorry.

I agree with you. All my brew water/etc. Goes straight out the side of my garage on the lawn. Grass loves it.

I don't have a problem with letting the waste water go into the yard (we all do that) when I'm cleaning up outside, it's just not an acceptable solution for the problem the OP presented. I certainly wouldn't hook up a slop sink in the basement (which is what I'm imagining the OP is thinking about) without it actually draining into the house's plumbing system; you're just asking for a mess otherwise.

 

[lschiavo]

I don't have a problem with letting the waste water go into the yard (we all do that) when I'm cleaning up outside, it's just not an acceptable solution for the problem the OP presented. I certainly wouldn't hook up a slop sink (which is what I'm imagining the OP is thinking about) without it actually draining into the house's plumbing system; you're just asking for a mess otherwise.

Yes. We are straying from the topic.

I also pee in my yard. If you spread it around it does no harm but if you just use one spot it seems to be bad for the grass.

 

[KCBrewer]

What you have is 4" cast iron pipe. Pretty standard on older houses.

DO NOT attempt that 4" fernco boot if this is on a vertical stack. That will not support the rest of the stack. As mentioned, you will have a mess of cracked pipe/joints if that stack is not supported. 4" cast iron weighs 16.4 lbs/foot. You do the math.

Honestly, if you've never worked with cast iron pipe, I don't know if this is something you want to take on yourself. If could easily turn into an expensive repair if not done right.

A suggestion. If this is not going to contain any large solids, drain into a bucket or drum and use a sump pump to pump it to a drain somewhere else.

 

[Max232]

I'm new here, haven't figured out posting pictures and stuff. You can pull this off with a cast/ductile iron saddle fitting. It is a clamp type fitting with threaded outlet. Just install it, drill your hole and thread your PVC adapter in it.

 

[kladue]

The 4" cast iron waste line can be cut and a 4" X 2" PVC or ABS combination tee can be installed with the branch as low as practical. Do not try the chain cracker cutter as you will probably shatter the old 4" cast iron, use a grinder and cuttoff disk or carbide sawzall blade to cut. For connection of the plastic to the cast iron there are rubber/stainless couplings made for this task, slide couplings over joint and tighten. Once the drain has been run to the sink you will need to extend the drain vertical to near the ceiling and install a vent fitting that lets air flow in and keeps sewer gasses from leaking back into the room as you will not have a vent stack to tie in to. As with all drians the line has to be graded 1/4" to the foot on horizontal runs, so starting low will be a good idea if you have far to go. Use longer radius drainage fittings, not short radius pressure fittings for drain work as the latter would probably get plugged up.

 

[pickles]

You can't just install a vent near the ceiling. Venting this sink is a whole other issue. I suppose you could use an auto vent but I don't think that's code, but where he's going he don't need no stinking codes.

 

[birvine]

I'm no plumber so excuse my terminology or lack thereof. Is there any other spot in that room where there are pvc drain pipes or even a floor drain near the wall? If so, you might be able to install one of those sealed tanks with a sump pump inside that pumps the liquid out through a line to a drain pipe located elsewhere.

B

EDIT: I have seen them on the shelf at both Canadian Tire and Home Depot.

 

[cyclogenesis]

hehe.. I should go get the popcorn..

Yes.. I am below ground in my basement.. Hence the desire to drain out through the plumbing...

In Summer cooling water (tap driven) will actually be going outside to water but I need a sink..

 

[pickles]

The answer is to do like we've said and cut the pipe and add a tee. The Fernco is perfect, bu it is entirely made of rubber so you must secure the above pipe with hangers, these are readily available at the local plumbing store. Cast iron is very brittle and f'ing hard, so use one of the methods I mentioned earlier to cut it. The sink drain will need vented. You can not use the stack as a vent if fixtures above use it as a drain ( which they do). You could probably get away with an autovent or you'll have to find another way to vent it.

 

[starman]

Use two rubber slip connectors with stainless bands, not the flex t. Infill the cut with 4" pvc top and bottom of a 4x4x2 sanitary t. Make sure and keep it low enough to pitch your drain from the basin. For the love of beer, use a p-trap at your sink.

For your cuts, they make a diamond dust covered sawzall blade that while pricey, will last forever if you keep it wet. Each cut could take a good 15 minutes. If not get 3 or so blades. CI is some tough stuff. Leave the breaker chain for the pros.

The sink must be vented to meet code. It should not tie into a pipe that has other waste still comming from above. Thats called a wet vent and not usually allowed. That said if you are close to the stack, the sink would function roughly ok without one. You might get gigged at a home inspection if youre trying to sell in the future.

Do you have a second probably smaller pipe close by? Its not completely out of the question to have a vent already down there. Post a pic if you can.

 

[cyclogenesis]

Thanks for the responses! I might look at a sump.. might be the simplest option..

I do have a laundry trough in the basement but it is in a far corner of the room (and not near a window which I need for venting...

 

[lschiavo]

If you have a laundry sink, why can you not tie your new sink into that drain? Sounds a little farther to run but cheaper than a sump. Maybe you should draw a picture or take a few.