Inspiration, move me brightly (oak chips & hops)

[blasterooni]

This thread, and all that was discussed there (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...-cider-from-a-local-farm.670401/#post-8683527) has inspired me [brightly] to try a couple things. I felt the thread was getting hijacked from all the questions I was asking, so I figured I would start a different one.

So, after work, I stopped off at the LHBS to pick up some French Oak Chips and some Mosaic Hops. I have two ciders going right now, 5 gallons each and both have about a week or so left in primary. One is US-05, and the other is Nottinghams. I want to add the hops to one and the chips to the other. I am not sure which one to add what to or if it would even matter at the end of the day. The US-05 has a higher OG than the Nottingham, and nothing has been added to either except yeast nutrients of various sorts, some tannin but not much, and in the US-05, I used sucrose, dextrose and brown sugar to bring the gravity up.

I am asking if one would be better off with the chips or the hops. I am leaning toward putting the chips in the 05, and the hops in the NH, since I expect the 05 to take longer to finish in secondary than the NH, but that is entirely a guess.

The package on the chips says 2 oz. in 5 gallons, and the flavor is "fully extracted in 4-5 weeks". Now, I've read that some steep them in water, or bourbon, while other just toss em in the carboy either freely or in a mesh bag. I am leaning toward the latter and just toss em in a mesh bag and let it steep that way, perhaps after steaming them to sanitize.

As for the hops. I'll do what i've done before, and just put them in the mesh bag and let it steep for about a week, that worked well the last two times.

I am going to go back to the thread i linked to see if I can glean a good idea from what was posted about the chips, but, in the meantime, if anyone has a suggestion, I am open to them.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I am asking if one would be better off with the chips or the hops.

Doubt it. Both yeasts are reasonably clean.

The package on the chips says 2 oz. in 5 gallons, and the flavor is "fully extracted in 4-5 weeks". Now, I've read that some steep them in water, or bourbon, while other just toss em in the carboy either freely or in a mesh bag. I am leaning toward the latter and just toss em in a mesh bag and let it steep that way, perhaps after steaming them to sanitize.

I've only used cubes so far. Pretty much everyone says they provided a superior flavor vs chips, however it takes longer to extract.

For my cubes I boil them in water for about 1-2 minutes and then discard the water. This supposedly helps remove the "harsh" raw lumber flavor.
It has absolutely nothing to do with sanitation. Sanitation is largely unimportant for making cider and other wines, if you use proper techniques.
Can you do this with chips? I don't know, I guess if you put them in a bag so it's easier to pull them out of the water. Try one minute.

I'd recommend you start with about a quarter of what the package recommends. 0.5 oz is a reasonable starting place. Check the flavor at least weekly. You don't want the oak to overpower the apple.

Cheers

 

[blasterooni]

Doubt it. Both yeasts are reasonably clean.

I've only used cubes so far. Pretty much everyone says they provided a superior flavor vs chips, however it takes longer to extract.

For my cubes I boil them in water for about 1-2 minutes and then discard the water. This supposedly helps remove the "harsh" raw lumber flavor.
It has absolutely nothing to do with sanitation. Sanitation is largely unimportant for making cider and other wines, if you use proper techniques.
Can you do this with chips? I don't know, I guess if you put them in a bag so it's easier to pull them out of the water. Try one minute.

I'd recommend you start with about a quarter of what the package recommends. 0.5 oz is a reasonable starting place. Check the flavor at least weekly. You don't want the oak to overpower the apple.

Cheers

DO you think I should wait until secondary or put them in now? (I decided to put the oak in the 05 since it will likely take longer to finish given the gravity)

 

[Blacksmith1]

Secondary is where everyone says to use the oak. Including the companies that sell it.

 

[CKuhns]

I have done oak and hops, both in secondary placed them in a small mesh sanitized bag for ease of clean up with pretty good results.

Consider checking them both pretty often until you get the timing down for the flavor profile you like. Fir me hops no more than 8 days. Oak can get pretty intense and 4 to 5 weeks would be much too long for me.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah, particularly with chips I would wait 'til fermentation is done.
It's easy to add too much, or so I've heard from numerous reports.

You saw I added mine at the beginning. That's because 1. oak cubes take longer to extract flavor and 2. Brett seems to actually eat most of the oak flavor, causing it to fade over time and so over-oaking isn't much of a problem in that case. It's really an incredible organism.

Cheers

 

[bornandraisedlv]

Read this thread based on the title! RIP Hunter!

On topic, I have 5 gallons of cider that I used Nottingham with that’s been in secondary for about 2 months that I am getting ready to dry hop with some Willamette. Trying to replicate a local cider.

Interested to see how your wood chipped cider turns out.

Some rise, some fall, some climb

 

[blasterooni]

Read this thread based on the title! RIP Hunter!

On topic, I have 5 gallons of cider that I used Nottingham with that’s been in secondary for about 2 months that I am getting ready to dry hop with some Willamette. Trying to replicate a local cider.

Interested to see how your wood chipped cider turns out.

Some rise, some fall, some climb

To get to TERRAPIN!

I will keep updating once the chips go in. Itll be awhile no doubt. But i have time to get my research dialed in as to when and how long, and of course, how much. Ill follow RpH's lead on those elements. Just have to wait til racking time, which is no less than 10 days away im estimating maybe longer. Would be nice to free up the carboy for "yet another step back," i mean another batch

 

[blasterooni]

Looking like a out 14g of chips in a mesh bag, boiled for about a minute, and let steep for no longer than 3 weeks, checking flavor now and again. Ill do the chips in the 05, and hop the NH

 

[blasterooni]

To get to TERRAPIN!

I will keep updating once the chips go in. Itll be awhile no doubt. But i have time to get my research dialed in as to when and how long, and of course, how much. Ill follow RpH's lead on those elements. Just have to wait til racking time, which is no less than 10 days away im estimating maybe longer. Would be nice to free up the carboy for "yet another step back," i mean another batch

Whats the name of the local cider? I wonder if its available here in California...

 

[bornandraisedlv]

Whats the name of the local cider? I wonder if its available here in California...

Sociable Ciderwerks. In all honesty probably one of the best ciders I’ve had outside of England. Wife is from England and even her “snobby” brother says they are fantastic.

 

[blasterooni]

Sociable Ciderwerks. In all honesty probably one of the best ciders I’ve had outside of England. Wife is from England and even her “snobby” brother says they are fantastic.

Thanks bro, I'll see if I can find it down here somewhere. There aren't many good store bought ciders in my opinion, so its nice to find another good go-to cider for those periods between batches (I like aspall, far west, ethic, and this local small batch cider called sin-eater, which is made from road side apples and natural yeast, the most "farm house" cider I've ever had from a commercial cider maker). I hope to get a nice pipeline going at some point. I might have to make some cider that is nearly appalling to my wife; she can chug the stuff! Any ideas? Although, anything with alcohol in it, she'll damn near drink it!

 

[blasterooni]

Sociable Ciderwerks. In all honesty probably one of the best ciders I’ve had outside of England. Wife is from England and even her “snobby” brother says they are fantastic.

Well, shoot. Nowhere near here. Maybe Ill order some if they can ship to Cali...

 

[Blacksmith1]

I might have to make some cider that is nearly appalling to my wife; she can chug the stuff! Any ideas? Although, anything with alcohol in it, she'll damn near drink it!

Sounds like you have my wife's clone. Seems like lately all I hear is "What do you have that's ready?" I have 34 gallons of various stuff going just to try to get ahead of it to het some that is aged.

 

[blasterooni]

Sounds like you have my wife's clone. Seems like lately all I hear is "What do you have that's ready?" I have 34 gallons of various stuff going just to try to get ahead of it to het some that is aged.

Yep! Thats is what i have to do. Ill need to get a few more carboys going so she can get hers, and i can actually get some aging. What im going to probably do is for each 5 gallon, ill pull 1 gallon to set aside for aging until i get ahead of curve whereafter i can actually start aging full batches properly. Ill probably do 1 or 2 kveik based strains for every 2-3 "other strains" (nottingham, 04, 05, 1118, etc). The kveik for quick turn arounds. I have sn 05 and an NH going on almost 3 weeks in primary, something like that, so im a good 4-6 weeks before its drinkable, maybe 3 once theyre in secondary. I suppose i could do a quick 3 gallon with some opshaug kveik since its availble now at the LHBS, see if it performs like the Voss. Gotta keep the little lady, and myself for that matter, happy. Plus i hate paying a crap ton of money for commercial ciders. What they call dry is quite different than what i call dry. Aside from Goat Rock, Ethic, and a few others, dry commercial ciders sure are sweet in my opinion. But thats what most people like in a cider i guess, sweet.
For example, the wifey loves Apple Bite. Aint no "bite" in it to me, tastes like martinellis, unless they are referring to a bite into a sweet dessert apple.