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Injury-frozen shoulder

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okiedog

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So... I'm finding out what it's like not being able to brew, or do brew related tasks such as racking, kegging, bottling etc. I injured my shoulder while fetching wood for our fireplace. Lately (but not now) I have been carrying in wood every day to keep a fire going in our fireplace. one wrong move, twist or whatever, and I'm on the DL. But at 72 I'm not so young anymore My left arm is in a sling, and the doctor says I have what is called "frozen shoulder", because it severely restricts movement of the arm/shoulder without sharp, excruciating pain. It's the pits, because I have to rely on other people to take of my beer. Because of the prescription meds the doctor gave me, I can't even drink it!
 

Bryggeri

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Get a referral for an orthopedic surgeon, there are options. I had frozen shoulder with smaller torn rotator cuff, moderate arthritis and the capsule swelling was very bad, <20% range of motion. A steroid injection and physical therapy with deep tissue massage, in 30 days was back to normal. Has been 4 months still good. Does not resolve torn rotator or arthritis but pushes surgery out a few years.
 

ncbrewer

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I had frozen shoulder. It was bad for most of a year, but I just took care of it on my own. How long does the doctor think yours will take to recover?
 
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Get a referral for an orthopedic surgeon, there are options. I had frozen shoulder with smaller torn rotator cuff, moderate arthritis and the capsule swelling was very bad, <20% range of motion. A steroid injection and physical therapy with deep tissue massage, in 30 days was back to normal. Has been 4 months still good. Does not resolve torn rotator or arthritis but pushes surgery out a few years.
Steroid injection will clear up bursitis overnight. I didn't do it for the shoulder, but I know from other crap I did to myself.

BTW, I embarrassingly got my shoulder bursitis from playing piano. Haha.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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Bryggeri, I'm seriously thinking about that Orthopedic Surgeon. I damaged my right rotator cuff and tore some tendons in my shoulder about 35 years ago, and I still sometimes feel pain from it. Having pain and problems with both shoulders does not appeal to me at all! Besides that, I hate typing with one hand. Doctor wanted to try a cortisone shot, and I may try that.
 
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Early 2017 I was injured and have a torn labrum, likely SLAP tear with bone inclusion. It took several months to heal but then got much worse. I couldn't put on my own seat belt or reach for my wallet (I'm not cheap so that sucked).

My orthopedic doctor diagnosed a frozen shoulder and I was given a steroid injection and sent to PT for deep tissue massage and exercises.

Insurance would not pay for PT so Google and YouTube took over after 3 visits. Buy some small dumbbells and a few other exercise items YouTube suggests.

Now, this is going to hurt Okiedog. A lot. You need to stretch that frozen tissue. Work it, push it, stretch it and take some Advil. Once it's stretched out, work those dumbbells and strengthen the muscles around that damaged joint. You'll never regain everything but 90% is good enough for us non-athletes.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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Thanks for the empathy. This morning, my shoulder seems to be a little bit better. There's not as much pain, and my range of motion has improved some. Also, I'm not taking Ibuprofen ever 4 hours. I still take it when I feel like I need it, just not as often. That's a good thing. IslandLizard, I hear you about taking it easy. This old body isn't as resilient as it used to be. Tough, but not as quick to recover. Thanks for all the support! I'll know I'm back in shape when I'm able to brew again. Not being able to do stuff is really frustrating.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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Joe Dragon, What you detailed is along the lines of what I was thinking. Those muscles do need to be strengthened. to take stress off the joint and tendons. A heat and ice regimen is important too. Heat before moving and flexing and icing afterwards. At least that's what they had me do for a previous injury. Sometimes insurance sucks, doesn't it? They sometimes won't pay for physical therapy, while at the same time paying for continued prescriptions and other treatment that may not be as effective, but is more expensive.
 

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Been there done that. Depending on the severity, you may be in for an MRI, steroid injection, or surgery. Even with a lower severity, its a long recovery. Try to not do any further damage or irritation to it. Check with the doc, but typically it's ice, heat and sometimes an arm splint to keep the motion down while it heals.

Best wishes for a speedy healing!
 

SEndorf

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Bryggeri, I'm seriously thinking about that Orthopedic Surgeon. I damaged my right rotator cuff and tore some tendons in my shoulder about 35 years ago, and I still sometimes feel pain from it. Having pain and problems with both shoulders does not appeal to me at all! Besides that, I hate typing with one hand. Doctor wanted to try a cortisone shot, and I may try that.
I'm no doctor, but I'd recommend getting to that orthopedic surgeon before doing anything.
Hopefully, he/she will tell you to scrap that sling and get to PT.
Wishing you a good recovery. Like you, I'm now paying for injuries when I was younger. Twice daily back and shoulder exercises helps immensely. Want to stay off that ibuprophen so I can drink beer!
 

kh54s10

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I injured a foot once. The doctor gave me a cortisone shot. A week later I went back for a checkup. He asked how the cortisone worked and I told him it did absolutely nothing. He was shocked. I then did physical therapy. It started getting better after the second visit.

I later fell on my elbow. After a couple days, my shoulder started giving me pain. The doc took x-rays, no hard tissue damage so PT again. 5 years later it is still stiff on some days. The weird thing is that my good shoulder gives me more problems.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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I am slingless today! Yay! Last night I heated up my shoulder with a heating pad, then I started moving my suspended arm in circles. At first it hurt, but it eventually started loosening up. figure 8s were more difficult and painful, so I backed off of those a bit. I was hurting after my little workout. Then I wedged a bag of frozen peas between my shirt and shoulder and after half an hour, the pain was gone. Last night I took my painkillers but no Ibuprofen, and I had my first good night of sleep since my injury. Again, thanks for all the support! Tonight I won't take my painkillers. It's New Years Eve, and I might like a sip or two. Knowing full well that I am not out of the woods yet, I am still very encouraged by the progress I have made so far.
 

kh54s10

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I have had 2 doctors say that they recommend never using heat. Exercise and stretching and then ice but never heat. ???? IDK really.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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Unless it has changed, RPTs usually recommend heat an injured area to improve flexibility before exercise, and icing after exercise to reduce inflammation. Has that practice changed? I don't know either.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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My range of motion has improved dramatically, and the pain about 5 or 10% of what it was. In fact, my other shoulder hurts more sometimes. I guess I need to work both shoulders.
 
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okiedog

okiedog

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I just wanted to update this thread to say that now 3 months later, my previously frozen shoulder is still doing just fine. My other shoulder, however has really been giving me a lot of problems. It's an old injury that was latent for years, but has now become very painful. I'm wondering if therapy and the right exercises would help. The pain is localized in the area of the attachment point of my biceps tendon.
 

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I just wanted to update this thread to say that now 3 months later, my previously frozen shoulder is still doing just fine. My other shoulder, however has really been giving me a lot of problems. It's an old injury that was latent for years, but has now become very painful. I'm wondering if therapy and the right exercises would help. The pain is localized in the area of the attachment point of my biceps tendon.
Yes, exercise would be good but you need to talk to a PT to determine what to begin with and how you should progress.
 

Oyarsa

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Steroid injection will clear up bursitis overnight. I didn't do it for the shoulder, but I know from other crap I did to myself.

BTW, I embarrassingly got my shoulder bursitis from playing piano. Haha.
Hey now, don't be embarrassed just because it was from playing piano. Piano playing can be very physical. As long as it was Prokofiev or some such...
 

Gadjobrinus

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Okiedog, that sucks. I have what you have mate. Can't extend my arm to the side more than 90 deg, can't put my arm behind my back without a big ow bark. Some rotator cuff tearing and bursitis, and some unexplained impingement so basically that's the block on my arm, just a hard stop at 90 deg. Frozen shoulder, never heard of it until my doc told me.

58, but a pretty badly dinged up body. Lived inside a Japanese martial arts and zen temple during my 30's as a direct apprentice and got the crap beat out of me every day, for 1 1/2 years. I got to where I couldn't walk but was challenged for "weakness" so I pushed on. When I got out, my gf (now my wife) had to push me out of bed as it was excruciating to move (or god forbid, sneeze). As it turns out damaged my central nervous system, it's permanent and degenerative, causes entire body to burn constantly as if scalding, lots of other goodies like violent tremors that come from nowhere and cause me to fall, etc. Several other neuro issues, all from pushing.

Only reason I'm saying all this is it took me being forced to slow down before I finally got smart enough to listen to my body. Doc says I could be as long as a couple of years on regaining arm functionality and I'm going to accept that. Taking steroid shots, pt of course - but slow and steady. I'm preaching the same, just hoping you come back well. Being forced to slow down sucks but it's better than the alternative!

Good luck to you.
 

Gadjobrinus

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Hey now, don't be embarrassed just because it was from playing piano. Piano playing can be very physical. As long as it was Prokofiev or some such...
Just stay away from the Rach 3, Andrew. Not the Rach 3!

Actually another cool thing, man. Color me impressed.
 
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Hey now, don't be embarrassed just because it was from playing piano. Piano playing can be very physical. As long as it was Prokofiev or some such...
Beethoven. Moonlight Sonata. There's a place where I was reaching left hand over right. I did it all night, and the next day my left shoulder was FUBAR. Had to wear a sling.

Just stay away from the Rach 3, Andrew. Not the Rach 3!

Actually another cool thing, man. Color me impressed.
Haha. I've probably given the impression I'm a good (or even real) piano player. I'm not. I'm a self-taught hack ( just like nearly everything else I do :) ).
 

Dgallo

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I feel you there. Had two shoulder surgeries by 22. Baseball injuries... torn bicep tendon, labrum, and stretched capsule. Sucks, was my throwing arm and couldn’t even clean myself well each day a struggle for almost 6 weeks. Good luck brother!
 

Gadjobrinus

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Beethoven. Moonlight Sonata. There's a place where I was reaching left hand over right. I did it all night, and the next day my left shoulder was FUBAR. Had to wear a sling.



Haha. I've probably given the impression I'm a good (or even real) piano player. I'm not. I'm a self-taught hack ( just like nearly everything else I do :) ).
I was thinking of, dang, what was it - Shine? Is that it? Loved that film but am badly versed, especially in late romantic music like Rachmaninoff (though here's another play - played Konstantin Stanislavski in Chekhov in Yalta, and the second act opened with Rach.'s Variations on a Theme by Paganini. That was my cue. I will always get moved when I hear those strains come on). Very much a late Mozart guy - into the man himself. I love Moonlight, one of the pieces I just feel the man composing, so close to what he truly was. I have to listen to the Ninth alone, because I go insane. Again, well done. I'm sure you're merely being humble.
 
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I was thinking of, dang, what was it - Shine? Is that it? Loved that film but am badly versed, especially in late romantic music like Rachmaninoff (though here's another play - played Konstantin Stanislavski in Chekhov in Yalta, and the second act opened with Rach.'s Variations on a Theme by Paganini. That was my cue. I will always get moved when I hear those strains come on). Very much a late Mozart guy - into the man himself. I love Moonlight, one of the pieces I just feel the man composing, so close to what he truly was. I have to listen to the Ninth alone, because I go insane. Again, well done. I'm sure you're merely being humble.
Rach 3rd concerto was in Shine. Presumably a really difficult song to play. Rach had huge hands, probably helped. Your theme is Rach's 2nd concerto, which is my fave. Featured in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (I think it was Dagny who was enthralled with it, but I'm sure it started with the author Ayn who was russian). That's where I first read about it. Been hooked since.

[edit: woops, it was Rand's The Fountainhead, an arguably better book for those who read such]
 
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shoebag22

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I was diagnosed with frozen shoulder several months ago. PT and stretching have gotten me back to 90% movement. I honestly wasn’t sure I would ever be able to throw a baseball or swing a golf club again. It took a couple surgeons and an mri to determine that there was no real physical damage. Once we learned that and I wouldn’t cause further damage, I began to push my stretches to the edge of discomfort. Keep with it and stretch as much as possible.
 

Gadjobrinus

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Rach 3rd concerto was in Shine. Presumably a really difficult song to play. Rach had huge hands, probably helped. Your theme is Rach's 2nd concerto, which is my fave. Featured in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (I think it was Dagny who was enthralled with it, but I'm sure it started with the author Ayn who was russian). That's where I first read about it. Been hooked since.

[edit: woops, it was Rand's The Fountainhead, an arguably better book for those who read such]
More, thanks, Andrew. Now I want to look up Rach's hands, lol. Explains, from a total outsider's almost-zero perspective. (By the way, Rush, that performance - my god. I'd not seen him before. And his young self, and the dad, whom I've seen in many things). I've actually not read too much Rand, just an essay on art, somewhere. I'll grab and read, would be good for me.

One thing I didn't mention, outside of Mozart (esp. zany, late Mozart), Tchaikovsky, a couple Berlioz (used Marche Au Supplice to open my own Hamlet in a production. I played the Dane. Not recommended to try both.), and Beethoven, I'm pretty mad about the nationalist romantics. Smetana's "Of Bohemian Fields and Forests" is one of those instant transporters for me. Dvorak, Grieg, Sibelius, (Smetana), Bartok. Love them. Oh, Aaron Copland of course. There is no way I can listen to "Fanfare for the Common Man" without swelling with a love of being American, though I want to pull the straps of some overalls and put on the crumpled, dusty hat on the way out to the fields, lol.

Okiedog, I apologize for taking this way off topic. I just have an envy of Andrew. Always wanted to learn the piano but other things got in the way. Most I got was a good enough gypsy swing rhythm guy that I founded a group here and otherwise gigged here and in Milwaukee with various bands needing a, well, gypsy swing rhythm guy for the night or two.:cool:
 

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I was diagnosed with frozen shoulder several months ago. PT and stretching have gotten me back to 90% movement. I honestly wasn’t sure I would ever be able to throw a baseball or swing a golf club again. It took a couple surgeons and an mri to determine that there was no real physical damage. Once we learned that and I wouldn’t cause further damage, I began to push my stretches to the edge of discomfort. Keep with it and stretch as much as possible.
This is the best possible approach for a successful intervention! Glad you're seeing the benefits of your rehab.
 

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One thing I didn't mention, outside of Mozart (esp. zany, late Mozart), Tchaikovsky, a couple Berlioz (used Marche Au Supplice to open my own Hamlet in a production. I played the Dane. Not recommended to try both.), and Beethoven, I'm pretty mad about the nationalist romantics. Smetana's "Of Bohemian Fields and Forests" is one of those instant transporters for me. Dvorak, Grieg, Sibelius, (Smetana), Bartok. Love them. Oh, Aaron Copland of course.
You should check out some organ composers if you haven't already. There's a reason it's called the King of Instruments. I played the Guillmant Premiere Symphonie with a full orchestra in college. Definitely one of the greatest nights of my life. The end of the 3rd movement is particularly fun. Easy, but fantastic. Then there's Vierne's Carillon de Westminster, Widor's Toccatta from Symphony no. 5, Alain's Litanies, Durufle's Prelude et Fugue Sur le Nom D'Alain, Franck, Messiaen, etc.
 
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This is the best possible approach for a successful intervention! Glad you're seeing the benefits of your rehab.
I’ve been through the frozen shoulder protocol with PT twice in the last 10+ years following a CVA. Pretty good motion but it will never really completely return to full motion. The CVA has left some permanent issues.
That’s why I Brew now. I can do it basically one armed with my system.
At least I have plenty of beer on tap!!
 

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I stayed up late playing a bunch of Hoagy Carmichael numbers on piano and my shoulders haven't been the same since. But my SWMBO says its from my days working in a sawmill stacking RR ties.....
 

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I wrecked my shoulder snowboarding with my kids, doing jumps and terrain that I probably shouldn't have.. That was in the early 90's when snowboarding was considered a grungy middle school boy thing, and frowned upon at most of the larger resorts. I was in my 30's and got stared at a lot. heh...
Since I was virtually the only snowboarder they had seen that old (at least around here) the skiers thought I was either A: incredibly stupid or B: an expert snowboarder... of which I was assuredly neither.....:D
I wouldn't trade the shoulder pain for those memories though...
 
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okiedog

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I stupidly fell out of my attic once. Caught myself on the lip of the access hole. The jerk wrecked one of my shoulders. I thought I was done for. That was back when I healed quickly. Those were the days.
Yep. I remember those days too. I don't even want to think about some of the stuff that I did and miraculously survived, often unscathed. But those days are over for good. Just this morning, I got out of bed with a backache. That's no way to start a day.
 
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