Infection!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

MrGaryFish

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
GA
So I've been brewing for a few months and have been pretty meticulous with sanitation, but apparently I've got an infection. I took a couple pics, and I was wondering if anybody could identify it. Its pretty freaky looking.
 
dscn0110j.jpg
 
You don't have to dump it. Just let it sit for a couple years and enjoy it as a sour instead.

By the way, the fact that it's sitting right next to a vent may have something to do with it.
 
I see what looks like some hops around the pellicle. Did you dry hop? If so, did you boil them before adding them? Just wondering what could have caused your infection.
 
You don't have to dump it. Just let it sit for a couple years and enjoy it as a sour instead.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. A beer gone bad doesn't really make it a Flanders Red or a Lambic. Just makes it nasty. How can you ensure that these bacteria are safe? These are bacteria that were not planned for not the beautiful blend in the Wyeast Roselare #3763. I wouldn't drink anything with an infection of this magnitude.
 
That doesn't look like a pellicule or an infection, that looks like trapped co2 bubbles from the oil slick that is often produced by dry hopping. The bubbles are form co2 tapped beneath the skin...NOT AN INFECTION...

AND you would be silly to Dump it based on anyone's suggestion. Especially if you didn't taste it first.

The only way to know if it is an infection is to smell it and taste it. Even if it is a pellicule, that doesn't mean it is infected....Pellicules are often formed to PROTECT the beer from an infection, it forms a skin to keep the beer safe, and if you racked under it you often find that the beer is perfectly fine.,

But I am pretty sure that what I am seeing here, is the same thing that I have seen in my fermenters when I dry hop....nothing to worry about.

Again, you have to taste it to make sure.
 
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. A beer gone bad doesn't really make it a Flanders Red or a Lambic. Just makes it nasty. How can you ensure that these bacteria are safe? These are bacteria that were not planned for not the beautiful blend in the Wyeast Roselare #3763. I wouldn't drink anything with an infection of this magnitude.

What do you mean by "safe?" Nothing pathogenic can live in beer...Even our worst infection in a beer, will not harm us!!!!

Daily many of us have to answer threads about that very topic, people thinking that if they make a mistake that their beer can kill people, make people extremely ill, or cause yeast infection and other illness.

Nothing pathogenic can live in beer, including botchuism. So the only "poisoning" you can get is liver poising...but we're all in the same boat with that anyway, so you are in good company. :D

I came across this from a pretty well known and award winning homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.

Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.


It's important to remember that one of the reasons we have beer today (one of the oldest beverages in existence) is because it was made to be drunk in places where drinking the WATER was deadly....By boiling the wort, adding hops (which is an antiseptic), changing the ph, and pitching yeast, you killed of any microorganism that good be harmful.....in fact the third runnings of the brewing process was fermented at an extremely low gravit 1-2% ABV, and it was called "table beer" or "Kid's Beer" this is the stuff that people drank with meals...it was their water replacement, like Iced tea or soda pop...because again the fermentation process insured thatit was safer than the water.

So even a beer that may taste and smell like a$$ is NOT going to be harmful if consumed.

Only to our pride. ;)
 
And the Reverend steps in for the win.

LOL!!!! Thanks.

Neither the idea of dumping a beer without tasting it, NOR the ignorant idea that somehow this hobby, even during our WORST mistake could be harmful gets my craw in a knot....I just want to make sure that any scared noobs looking on doesn't actually believe we can get hurt from homebrewwing...or that everything that looks weird in a fermenter, isn't necessarily infected, and shouldn't be dumped indiscrimanently.

:mug:
 
I see what looks like some hops around the pellicle. Did you dry hop? If so, did you boil them before adding them? Just wondering what could have caused your infection.

Good eye by the way...you had the same thought as I did. :mug:

I freaked out the first time I dry hopped and had the same skin...Biermuncher posted a pic of his that showed me exactly that and that it was fine...and it was.
 
Absolutely. I completely agree about the misinformation that is spread against homebrewing. Most of the time it comes from a harmless source or someone using their "common sense" when it is not that simple.

On the other hand, I've never seen anything like that on top of a beer. Granted, I've only dry hopped a handful of times. Definitely take the advice and try it before you dump it. Who knows, it may be the best beer you've ever brewed.
 
I freaked out the first time I dry hopped and had the same skin...Biermuncher posted a pic of his that showed me exactly that and that it was fine...and it was.

Well there you go. Problem solved. Wonderful beer is being contained in that carboy. Get it out of there and drink up! :mug:
 
Well there you go. Problem solved. Wonderful beer is being contained in that carboy. Get it out of there and drink up! :mug:

Yeah, BUT, we can't even generalize with MY opinion, mine was fine, and so was biermunchers, BUT every fermentaton is different....The only way to know is if the OP actually tastes it for himself.
 
Yeah, BUT, we can't even generalize with MY opinion, mine was fine, and so was biermunchers, BUT every fermentaton is different....The only way to know is if the OP actually tastes it for himself.

True enough. I just really wanted to use these: :mug:
 
I saw something very much like this in a friends brew once. Thankfully, I have not had this, but for his beer, we skimmed the floating stuff and siphoned carefully. The end product was a great beer.
 
Heere joo go!

infected1.jpg


It's a Flanders Red, "infected" with Wyeast's Roeselare Blend (Saccharomyces, Brettanomyces, and Lactic bacteria). If your beer looks like this, it's probably infected with brett, lactic bacteria, or some other kind of similar stuff.

And here's the thing: it's very rare to "accidentally" create a sour beer that's any good. You need to start off with a good base for the style, use the bugs intended for that style, and age it accordingly. As with oak, many people think that, if they have a crappy batch of beer, they can "save" it by oaking it or adding bugs. Garbage in, garbage out, as the saying goes. Others accidentally get infected and people think they've made a lambic. Nay-nay. It's possible, but the odds are stacked against you in almost all possible ways. First, chances are that the base beer had too much bitterness and hop character to be a good base beer for a sour style. Second, the chances that you're accidentally infected with a bug that makes good sour beer are also minuscule. FYI.

I was just looking at an old thread, and it happen to look very similar to that beer. mmmmm bugs.
 
For the record, this:


Looks quite a bit different than this:


Notice the uneven bubbles and strands of bacteria in Evan's picture, while the OP's beer has more of a uniform haze and no noticeable bacteria strands. Again, I think it does look infected, but as Revvy has stated, you have to try it to know for sure, and there is ample evidence that it is just a layer of hop oils.
 
For the record, this:



Looks quite a bit different than this:



Notice the uneven bubbles and strands of bacteria in Evan's picture, while the OP's beer has more of a uniform haze and no noticeable bacteria strands. Again, I think it does look infected, but as Revvy has stated, you have to try it to know for sure, and there is ample evidence that it is just a layer of hop oils.


I agree with will, they DON'T look alike, The bubbles in the flanders look almost hairy, while the op's looks like I have seen before an oilslick rainbow.

Again this kinda game really serves no purpose except it breeds more fear and uncertainty in the new brewers looking on.All we're is conjecturing, the OP has to taste the beer....that's all there is to it.

We're not there, and we can analize pictures til we're blue in the face.
 
Who boils hops before dry hoping???

Ha I just saw that and thought the same thing. I've never done that before dry hopping, and haven't had a problem before. This beer had funky white stuff on it after primary ferm, but I had already sanitized the carboy and put in the dry hops so I racked onto it anyway. Here's what I saw after I opened the primary.

I'll just take a gravity and see how low it got before I taste it. That will obviously let me know how nasty it got.

dscn0095b.jpg
 
Revvy this is good info. I hope the OP didn't dump it based on my ignorance. I will take this credence to the grave.
 
Who boils hops before dry hoping???

Sorry for bringing this back up. I hope the OP's beer turned out well. I meant to say boiling some water with the hops, ie. steaming. You would always sanitize/boil your priming sugar before adding it to bottle. You should find a way to sanitize your hops before dry hopping, no matter how antiseptic they are supposed to be.
 
Back
Top