Infection Questions - Bottling

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Ilan34

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I've had two batches in a row that turned out overcarbed for no obvious reason, and now I'm thinking they might be infected. Both batches tasted fine out of the carboy, but after three weeks of conditioning, they were very foamy.
They tasted good, however.

I vented both batches a couple of times and kept trying them. The carbonation level didn't really decrease, however, and after a couple of weeks the beers started to change - became thinner, more astringent.

My two questions are:

1) When a batch gets infected in the bottle, is it typical to get over-carbonation first before any off-flavors show up?

2) How likely is it that it could become infected on the brewing/fermentation side, but not have any signs of infection show up until bottle conditioning is finished?


I'm replacing all plastic parts of my bottling process today, as I'm bottling an IPA tomorrow. This has been so frustrating - I'm sure you all understand.

Thanks in advance.



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Hello,

1. YES !

2. Likley, some times it takes a while to show up.

Yep been there ! done that !

I found that soaking infected equipment in a 50/50 mix of Hydrogen Peroxide/Water for 3 days will eliminate the infection and you should be able to reuse it.

Best of luck !

Cheers :mug:
 
Thanks! Good to know (although not, if you know what I mean).

Will soaking equipment in PBW have the same effect as the hydrogen peroxide soak?

I'm kind of sick to my stomach thinking about trying to eliminate this. Brewing already requires enormous amounts of patience as it is, without the suspense of waiting to see if it was all a waste of time.

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Make sure you take apart your bottling wand too. I didn't know about that when I first started out and it is amazing the crap that gets stuck in there.
 
Make sure you take apart your bottling wand too. I didn't know about that when I first started out and it is amazing the crap that gets stuck in there.

Yup, I do that every time. My sanitation and cleaning practices are pretty sound - I even often wonder if other homebrewers might think I go overboard. I did just replace my autosiphon and bottling bucket, both of which I had for almost a year.

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what kind of yeast are you using? how long in primary?

i've had english yeasts seemingly finish, only to start up again once roused via the bottling process.

also, i think a lot of bottle conditioned beers tend to be foamy unless they've been refrigerated for a day or two or stored at room temperature for a couple of months.
 
what kind of yeast are you using? how long in primary?

i've had english yeasts seemingly finish, only to start up again once roused via the bottling process.

also, i think a lot of bottle conditioned beers tend to be foamy unless they've been refrigerated for a day or two or stored at room temperature for a couple of months.

Here's the deal with these two batches:

Moose Drool clone: Indeed was an English yeast - Wyeast 1968. Did a starter. 24 days in primary. Bottled for three weeks, and then in the fridge for three days before tasting. OG: 1.055. FG: 1.014.

These aren't just foamy by this point - they require two glasses, even with a slow, careful pour. That's after venting the entire batch three times.

Oaked Bourbon Vanilla Porter: Wyeast 1728 — Scottish Ale. Big starter - OG was 1.071. FG was 1.018 - not bad for an extract batch (I almost always do all grain). Was in primary for exactly three weeks and then secondary for 10 days. I racked onto a vanilla bean and half an ounce of chips that had been soaking in Maker's for two weeks (I poured the bourbon in, too).

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So, will a PBW soak accomplish the same thing as a bleach or hydrogen peroxide soak?

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Not the same. Get all the stuff that touches the beer good & clean first. Then soak in the HP solution to sanitize it all. Rinse well afterward.
 
Not the same. Get all the stuff that touches the beer good & clean first. Then soak in the HP solution to sanitize it all. Rinse well afterward.

So, PBW to clean and then the Hydrogen peroxide will sanitize? Why not just use StarSan?

Not trying to be difficult, I appreciate the advice - it's just that I already have the StarSan and it would be far more convenient to soak for a matter of hours rather than days.

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So, PBW to clean and then the Hydrogen peroxide will sanitize? Why not just use StarSan?

Not trying to be difficult, I appreciate the advice - it's just that I already have the StarSan and it would be far more convenient to soak for a matter of hours rather than days.

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I had a infection that killed 5 batches trying to reuse my equipment, finally we tried a bleach bomb / StarSan combo that didn't even slow it down.

If you want to be sure its gone use the HP on it and it will be done.

You might get away with soaking in StarSan, but do you really want to kill another batch to see if it worked?

Cheers :mug:
 
I'd also add that you need to drink those infected bottles fast or dump them. Bottle bombs are real, not just a "subrewban legend."
 
I'd also add that you need to drink those infected bottles fast or dump them. Bottle bombs are real, not just a "subrewban legend."

Yup... I know, I've had one before. I have one of each in fridge to try in a couple of days, just as one more test to make sure I want to dump them. I have them all in a green hard plastic bin in a locked closet.

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I've also vented both batches 2 or 3 times, so I'm not expecting them to blow any second - hopefully not, anyway!

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Yup... I know, I've had one before. I have one of each in fridge to try in a couple of days, just as one more test to make sure I want to dump them. I have them all in a green hard plastic bin in a locked closet.

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No offense intended, but it sounds like you need to work on your sanitation process.

I wouldn't dump them as long as they don't taste bad, just pour fast into a extra large glass lol, if they become sour you can always mix it with tonic water for a nice refreshing shandy type drink.

Or use it for cooking, we do this with my batches that went sour.
Cheers :mug:
 
Hello,

1. YES !

2. Likley, some times it takes a while to show up.

Yep been there ! done that !

I found that soaking infected equipment in a 50/50 mix of Hydrogen Peroxide/Water for 3 days will eliminate the infection and you should be able to reuse it.

Best of luck !

Cheers :mug:
Where do you buy that much hydrogen peroxide? It would take gallons.
 
I don't see if your bottling bucket has a spout, and/or if you are using auto siphon. Are you also using a bottling wand?
 
No offense intended, but it sounds like you need to work on your sanitation process.

Well, I guess if I do have a contamination, then I can't deny this. However, I'm not sure what you're basing that on when I haven't even described my process. That one bottle bomb I had was from my fourth batch - before I knew enough to take multiple hydrometer readings. I then immediately dumped the rest of that batch - I never found out if it was just a cracked bottle, an infection, or if it wasn't finished fermenting when I bottled.

I'm brewing my 41st batch this weekend. I'm sure I can improve my process (it's all about continual adjustments and gained experience), but I do think my sanitation process is sound by this point. This is my first experience with possible infections. Everything gets PBW. Everything gets rinsed well. Everything gets StarSan. (that's the short version lol)
 
I don't see if your bottling bucket has a spout, and/or if you are using auto siphon. Are you also using a bottling wand?

Yep, my bucket has a spigot. I also use both an auto siphon and a bottling wand.
 
Well, I guess if I do have a contamination, then I can't deny this. However, I'm not sure what you're basing that on when I haven't even described my process. That one bottle bomb I had was from my fourth batch - before I knew enough to take multiple hydrometer readings. I then immediately dumped the rest of that batch - I never found out if it was just a cracked bottle, an infection, or if it wasn't finished fermenting when I bottled.

I'm brewing my 41st batch this weekend. I'm sure I can improve my process (it's all about continual adjustments and gained experience), but I do think my sanitation process is sound by this point. This is my first experience with possible infections. Everything gets PBW. Everything gets rinsed well. Everything gets StarSan. (that's the short version lol)

Yup... I know, I've had one before. I have one of each in fridge to try in a couple of days, just as one more test to make sure I want to dump them. I have them all in a green hard plastic bin in a locked closet.

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Sorry if I misunderstood, I was basing my reply on the part of your post in bold, it was in reply to the infection.

I really meant No Offense, I just took it as multiple infections, and had no idea of the time frame that they happened in.

I really am hoping for the best possible outcome for you and your beers !

Cheers :mug:
 
Sorry if I misunderstood, I was basing my reply on the part of your post in bold, it was in reply to the infection.

I really meant No Offense, I just took it as multiple infections, and had no idea of the time frame that they happened in.

I really am hoping for the best possible outcome for you and your beers !

Cheers :mug:

No offense taken. I just didn't want to give off the impression that this kind of thing is happening all the time. Didn't mean to jump all over you - I'm just anxious and frustrated about this. Thanks for the advice and good wishes. I replaced most of my plastic items and PBW'D the rest last night. I'm still not 100% sure I have infections and/or if they're related or if it's coincidence.

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Sorry if I misunderstood, I was basing my reply on the part of your post in bold, it was in reply to the infection.


I took it as a reply to bottle bombs. I had a few blow from my 4th batch as well. That was back when I just primed with the 5oz of dextrose that the kit came with. I had 5 bottles blow from that batch, all in 22's. I don't think they can take as much pressure as 12oz bottles. It was about 85F in the house that week so I'm sure that had something to do with it as well.
 
Interestingly, in between my two suspected infected batches, I've bottled two batches which are just fine:

A smoked Hefeweizen that is probably the best beer I've brewed yet. However, it was consumed so quickly that perhaps there was no time for an infection to show?

A DIPA - but perhaps the high alcohol and large amount of hops protected it from infection?

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I took it as a reply to bottle bombs. I had a few blow from my 4th batch as well. That was back when I just primed with the 5oz of dextrose that the kit came with. I had 5 bottles blow from that batch, all in 22's. I don't think they can take as much pressure as 12oz bottles. It was about 85F in the house that week so I'm sure that had something to do with it as well.

I had to explain the concept of bottle bombs to SWMBO AFTER it'd already exploded at 10 pm... In our kitchen cabinet... Above our fridge... And we live in an apartment inside of a dorm of a private girls' high school... And she was on duty for the night, so our kitchen door was open when it blew... And none of the girls know I brew.

So I have a vested interest in making sure that doesn't happen again.

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Little update: the Moose Drool clone was definitely infected. I took a degassed sample and compared the hydrometer reading to what it was at bottling. At bottling it was 1.014 (3 consecutive readings). It now stands at 1.007. Tasting worse and worse, so I dumped what was left. Going to run the same test on my porter tomorrow.

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I would quit dumping your beers, you can bottle them (flat even) and use them for cooking with.

Chicken breast in beer and butter is really good, so is sausage ! and pork chops, boil in beer and butter till beer is gone, then let it fry in the beer flavor infused butter, it will leave a caramelized coating on your food that is great!

Also if its sour, you can mix with tonic water and make a shanty !

Cheers :mug:
 
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