Induction plate

[Velnerj]

Thinking about ditching propane and opting for an induction plate. Since I live in Europe our 220v system is already set up to go big on electric.

I have a 10 gallon BK with a diameter of about 14.5" (37 cm).

What sort of wattage would I need to be able to heat water quickly (faster than propane?) and maintain a rolling boil for 5 gallon batches (pre-boil volume is around 7 gallons)?

Does the diameter of the plate (cooking space) need to match (or exceed) the diameter of pot?

 

[NTBeer]

I use a 3500 watt Avantco from Webstaurant with the same diameter kettle you have. It overhangs the edges a bit, but I have had no problems doing 5 gallon batches over about 5 years. Takes about 35 minutes to go from 60 F to boiling. Maintains a nice rolling boil at about 60% power.

 

[bracconiere]

does that cycle for heat control or would something like this help? i use a 120v sorta thing with my 1500 watt hot plate for controlling how vigorously it boils...i just bypassed the control knob it came with, and it's always on....

https://www.amazon.com/ULTECHNOVO-Variable-Regulator-Temperature-Controller/dp/B082MJSQ2M

 

[IslandLizard]

does that cycle for heat control or would something like this help? i use a 120v sorta thing with my 1500 watt hot plate for controlling how vigorously it boils...i just bypassed the control knob it came with, and it's always on....

https://www.amazon.com/ULTECHNOVO-Variable-Regulator-Temperature-Controller/dp/B082MJSQ2M

Induction burners use a form of "PWM" to control heat output. You can hear the high pitched whine when it comes on.
That Avantco IC3500 has about 12 preset levels from 500-3500W, as well as a bunch of temp control settings from 140-420F. The temp sensor is in the middle of the plate, in the center of the coil, so it's not that precise. When making soup stock 6-7 gallons simmers when set at "170F" for 3 hours before the unit shuts off (you need to set the internal timer for that). That stock kettle is insulated with some thick towels.

It can bring 4 gallons from 60F to strike temp (165F) in about 25 minutes. 7 gallons of mash runnings to a boil in about 45 minutes. I haven't exactly timed them. By the time I add the last of the 3rd runnings it's usually just about to boil, so I don't really have to wait for it.

Kettle overhang is not an issue. My 15 gallon 17" wideass kettle works A-OK.

 

[bracconiere]

Induction burners use a form of "PWM" to control heat output.

so it's a constant heat not a cycle on/off thing? like most electric burners?

 

[IslandLizard]

so it's a constant heat not a cycle on/off thing? like most electric burners?

Sorry, PWM is probably the wrong term. Except for the maximum power level (3500W) it's not constantly on.

The on and off cycles are relatively long, not fractions of seconds. The higher the power setting the longer the on-time. At 500W (the minimum power level) it may be on for 10" and off for 30". Not sure if it outputs at a lower level too, I would almost think so. I haven't timed it or checked the actual power draws when cycled on or off.
Nice experiment for a rainy day....

At the maximum output level of 3500W it's always on, 100% of the time, and at full power. IOW, it doesn't cycle at 3500W. But it does at all lower settings/levels.

 

[bracconiere]

oh, ok...i had that problem with my hot plate, and boiling things that need the steam at the right temp about 4-5' above the pot....i bypassed the knob, and started using a fan speed controller for it, much better....i plug the hot plate into the fan speed controller, then the fan speed controller into a kill-a-watt metter at the plug and can adjust by real time wattage usage.....always on, so it doesn't cycle....(i just thought i'd throw my experience out, not sure how much it matters for this, mashing in a kettle it'd be handy)

 

[IslandLizard]

Induction is very efficient and very easy to control (with the right power electronics). In many foundries the content inside the crucible is heated by induction. As long as the content is magnetic (such as most steel alloys). You can clearly hear the high pitch whine when it turns on. It's quite an experience.

 

[Vale71]

Sorry, PWM is probably the wrong term. Except for the maximum power level (3500W) it's not constantly on.

It's technically still PWM, just with a very, very long cycle.
Low-end induction plates create a visibly "pulsating" boil when they're set to lower than maximum power. High-end ones can modulate the current with the same frequency as the alternating current that powers them, so from 50 to 60 times per second. In that case the cycle is so fast that the boil will appear to be continuous because of inertia in the boiling liquid.

 

[bracconiere]

yeah, i've seen aluminium factories on history channel, before induction it was a precious metal......just saying a fan speed controller adjusts the voltage going to it, so instead of a cycle, you get a constant lower heat, and voltage regulation doesn't make as much heat as amperage regulation so their cheap....

 

[bracconiere]

Low-end induction plates create a visibly "pulsating" boil when they're set at lower than maximum power.

that's what i'm talking about.....but with that link, you can get it to be continuous...not sure what that would do to hop utilization, but......

 

[IslandLizard]

oh, ok...i had that problem with my hot plate, and boiling things that need the steam at the right temp about 4-5' above the pot....i bypassed the knob, and started using a fan speed controller for it, much better....i plug the hot plate into the fan speed controller, then the fan speed controller into a kill-a-watt metter at the plug and can adjust by real time wattage usage.....always on, so it doesn't cycle....(i just thought i'd throw my experience out, not sure how much it matters for this, mashing in a kettle it'd be handy)

Yeah, resistance heating is simpler to control. When you interrupt the IH unit's power the unit and electronics turn off, until you turn it back on, and starts up at its default setting, 1200W for the IC3500. People have been looking for (easy) mash control solutions with induction, to no avail.

You're using an 1800W fan speed controller? It's probably an SSR.

 

[bracconiere]

this is what i use

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Vari...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
i can keep my vapor temps stable at good temps with, off topic i know but relevant to hot plates, when i have to cool the head of the column it gets rough, so it's better to control the bottom temp.....

just thought it might help out with boiling hops also....

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

I have a 10 gallon BK. 13.8 inch diameter. I have a Mai-Cook induction cooker - 3500W. In the US, it uses a 240V plug. The plate is a little wider than the kettle. It brings 7.5 gallons of wort at about 150F to boiling in 20-25 minutes and maintains a good rolling boil. That's not as fast as propane IIRC, but not bad. Actually have to watch for boil-over when reaches boil initially, and when add hops.
Mai Cook Stainless Steel 3500W Electric Induction Cooktop, Electric Countertop BurnersMai Cook Stainless Steel 3500W Electric Induction Cooktop, Electric Countertop Burners

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Yeah, resistance heating is simpler to control. When you interrupt the IH unit's power the unit and electronics turn off, until you turn it back on, and starts up at its default setting, 1200W for the IC3500. People have been looking for (easy) mash control solutions with induction, to no avail.

You're using an 1800W fan speed controller? It's probably an SSR.

I'm in a project to make this work. I have an Adcraft manual control induction burner that I'm running at 240v (about 3500 watt). As a manual control (just a mechanical knob to control output), if power is removed, when reapplied it comes back on at the same setting it was on before turning off. I initially tried using an auber cube to control it, but you cannot reduce the cycle time reliably with the DSPR300. I'm now in the process of creating a craftbeerpi controller. Craftbeerpi has a simple controller that turns on if under temp and off when at or above temp. I've manually run the induction unit that way and it works quite well.

I'll be posting a build thread when it's done.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm in a project to make this work. I have an Adcraft manual control induction burner that I'm running at 240v (about 3500 watt). As a manual control (just a mechanical knob to control output), if power is removed, when reapplied it comes back on at the same setting it was on before turning off. I initially tried using an auber cube to control it, but you cannot reduce the cycle time reliably with the DSPR300. I'm now in the process of creating a craftbeerpi controller. Craftbeerpi has a simple controller that turns on if under temp and off when at or above temp. I've manually run the induction unit that way and it works quite well.

I'll be posting a build thread when it's done.

Sounds promising, much easier to implement with the rheostat-like control knob!
I'd make sure the cooling fan keeps running during off cycles, though.

 

[bracconiere]

You're using an 1800W fan speed controller? It's probably an SSR.

just because this popped up on my radar again, when i have my hot plate plugged into my fan speed controller, and into my kill-a-watt meter, pluged into the wall socket, when i put the controller to 'var' and turn the dial i can watch the wattage on the kill-a-watt change....and it stays at whatever i set the dial to, without cycling.....


i don't think it's a ssr, i think it drops the voltage.....so a voltage regulator....i'd have to buy another kill-a-watt meter and plug the hot plate into....wait!!! you just gave me an idea! thanks man! next time i do a batch i'll see if i plug the hot plate into the killawatt, then that into the wall, i can use voltage like i do wattage! lol, not sure what the difference would be though...

 

[IslandLizard]

i don't think it's a ssr

You're right, I wasn't thinking clearly. An SSR is an electronically controlled switch, on/off, that's all it does. That won't control/regulate fan speed.

You've got a voltage regulator, an electronic rheostat, like a dimmer.
I use one of those for my electric keggle still, 240V / 30A, plugs into a dryer socket.

 

[bracconiere]

electronic rheostat, like a dimmer.

and my understanding is there's two types of dimmers, resistance and voltage....resistance creates a lot of heat and are expensive.....

https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-C-200...1500+watt+dimmer+switch&qid=1599168778&sr=8-2
i was looking into stuff like that before i found the fan speed controller....ouch!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Sounds promising, much easier to implement with the rheostat-like control knob!
I'd make sure the cooling fan keeps running during off cycles, though.

Probably a good idea, but that would require it to be on a separate circuit. I'm trying to do this without getting into the guts of the induction unit.