Increasing body through protein

[dragonfire540]

Here is one for you all
I am building me a fitbeer I call it
A session ale with that comes out at around 120 kcal with 4% abv. So far I have it but the mouthfeel is quite low. I want more body to it without adding any more unfetmentable sugars like dextrin etc. I want it low in unfermented carbs and as it is it is good but want to add more body so proteins would do well for that and add to my daily protein intake.
What can I add to do that?
So far I am using 2-row brewers malt with crystal 40 for about 9% of the grain bill. starting gravity is 1.038 and fg is 1.008
I have hopped the hell out of it at 49 ibu calculated. so that is good.
But it is a bit thin still. Any suggestions of malts that can fit into this bill that can increase proteins and still ferment out the sugars?
Thanks!

 

[FatIrishPig]

I like where you are going with this. I just don't know enough to help.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Not sure about proteins but try mashing around 156F. Should give it more body.

 

[Cascadesrunner]

Pushing temps up will help. I also use flaked oats in mine to smooth it out.

 

[day_trippr]

Running the mash in the dextrin-favoring range surely contravenes the spirit if not the intent of "I want more body to it without adding any more unfetmentable [sic] sugars like dextrin etc."

Still, the OP may need to give some ground on that if mouthfeel is important.

English 6-row barley apparently has a notably higher protein content from its American 2-row cousin. Might consider sourcing grist bills from across the pond and see what happens.

And just in case it was being considered, I'd think actually adding protein (whey powder?) to beer at any phase would at best be fruitless with most of it precipitating out in the fermentor or floating to the surface before dispensing, and at worst a rancid mess...

Cheers!

 

[BrunDog]

I think most protein precips as dt mentioned above. I like oats for some mouth weight. I don't think beer is a highly protein food. Maybe mix with muscle milk?!!

 

[JLeuck64]

Instead of suggesting changes to your recipe I am going to ask if you have tried this very choice Blonde recipe yet? It's dirt simple, tastes great as is although you may want to hop it up a bit I suspect. The calories are not that much higher than your target and I promise the mouth feel is exactly what you are looking for! ( ;

 

[Kent88]

I've been messing with adding liquid whey to beer, but I have no idea if those proteins are staying in suspension.

 

[dragonfire540]

I was not thinking adding protein powder like whey as that I don't think would come out quite right... except, interesting I wonder how that would effect a stout if added pure unflavored protein isolates from whey. Would have more of a milky taste to it. Instead of lactose.
someday I might try that.

I was thinking of specialty malts that have higher protein in it that would still fully convert as to not leave many unfermentables.

6-row sounds like it might do it as well.
increasing the mash tempo would increase body but by leaving unfermentables behind... hence more complex carbohydrates that I want to avoid.

perhaps something to change out the Crystal 40 that would give similar color but more protein would be in order.

Running the mash in the dextrin-favoring range surely contravenes the spirit if not the intent of "I want more body to it without adding any more unfetmentable [sic] sugars like dextrin etc."

Still, the OP may need to give some ground on that if mouthfeel is important.

English 6-row barley apparently has a notably higher protein content from its American 2-row cousin. Might consider sourcing grist bills from across the pond and see what happens.

And just in case it was being considered, I'd think actually adding protein (whey powder?) to beer at any phase would at best be fruitless with most of it precipitating out in the fermentor or floating to the surface before dispensing, and at worst a rancid mess...

Cheers!

 

[dragonfire540]

Looking at your recipe gave me an idea.
Using Munich or Vienna malts for a portion of the bill could help I think. They tend to lend some maltiness to it but the protein PPM in them is not much higher then 2-row brewers malt.

Perhaps adding 10% Munich 10L and some % of flaked oats might do it, although it may end up more cloudy.

Instead of suggesting changes to your recipe I am going to ask if you have tried this very choice Blonde recipe yet? It's dirt simple, tastes great as is although you may want to hop it up a bit I suspect. The calories are not that much higher than your target and I promise the mouth feel is exactly what you are looking for! ( ;

 

[carloslavin]

I kept thinking about this since yesterday and it hasn't stopped bugging me.

I have a very approximated knowledge of nutrition. But, from a purely caloric standpoint, wouldn't proteins also contribute to the total calorie count of the brew (which is why OP is trying to avoid adding maltodex or something like that)?

 

[ba-brewer]

This might work, you get some color and it improves the mouthfeel.
https://www.midwestsupplies.com/maillard-malts-simpsons-golden-naked-oats

Wheat will help give you some body too.

Maybe try different yeasts, wyeast 2112 california lager yeast seems to make a beer with decent body.

 

[dragonfire540]

Yeah it Does at 4 kcal per gram
The difference is that excess carbs tend to get stored as fat where excess proteins trend to get burned for Heat in Thermogenesis or break it down and send parts of it to urine.

I like to lift weight from time to time and extra protein is a plus, just the alcohol itself is 7 kcal per gram but does not store as fat but stays in circulation till it is gets all absorbed. hence the drunken effect.

so the more attenuated the beer and more fermentable its sugars the less the residual sugars to contribute to carbohydrates, the "fitter" the fitbeer.

The proteins are ok since they don't directly contribute to body fat stores,

I kept thinking about this since yesterday and it hasn't stopped bugging me.

I have a very approximated knowledge of nutrition. But, from a purely caloric standpoint, wouldn't proteins also contribute to the total calorie count of the brew (which is why OP is trying to avoid adding maltodex or something like that)?

 

[dragonfire540]

I was thinking about that as well
I am drinking right now an Oatsmobile from Bells to get some idea of how it can come out

good idea

This might work, you get some color and it improves the mouthfeel.
https://www.midwestsupplies.com/maillard-malts-simpsons-golden-naked-oats

Wheat will help give you some body too.

Maybe try different yeasts, wyeast 2112 california lager yeast seems to make a beer with decent body.

 

[hobomoto]

Have you thought about doing a saison? The couple I've made with belle saison yeast that fermented down to 1.000 (can't be much sugar left there) and still had nice body supposedly because this yeast produces lots of glycerol.

Then maybe do some high protein adjuncts on top of that?

 

[JLump]

What about adding wheat, that would add protein right? I don't think that adds body though. HEY! What about adding glycerin??

 

[dragonfire540]

I never did care much for saison, but good thought.

Have you thought about doing a saison? The couple I've made with belle saison yeast that fermented down to 1.000 (can't be much sugar left there) and still had nice body supposedly because this yeast produces lots of glycerol.

Then maybe do some high protein adjuncts on top of that?

 

[dragonfire540]

Glycerin? yeah that would really make a hop explosion!

I thought of wheat but not sure that will get what I am looking for. Does boost some protein.
Perhaps I can experiment with a little Wheat mixed in though

What about adding wheat, that would add protein right? I don't think that adds body though. HEY! What about adding glycerin??

 

[cerealmasher]

I would try wheat, rye, oats, spelt, quinoa, or some other adjunct/grain that increases body via high protein content. Scottjanish.com has some good info on brewing with these guys. Also I would try switching yeast strains. Some strains have much higher levels of glycerol (or whatever it's called) which increase the mouthfeel significantly imo, more so than most grains. Saison strains such as 3711 are most noted for this, but other strains vary as well, some ppl claim that the Vermont or Conan strain has higher than normal levels or London ale III, (London ale I imo has about the same as III, but whatever), it's hard to find info on yeast mouthfeel though, so Maybe just keep switching them till you find something you like?

 

[Bobbybob]

I know several people who add glycerin to beer. Winery's do it to add body/mouthfeel. Beer is more complex than wine but it will work the same way.

 

[theowlman16]

Fitbeer? Is that like healthy cinnamon rolls?

 

[Mer-man]

Well if anything, this is an endorsement for fully attenuated beers

 

[dragonfire540]

Yes that I think it is.
Fully attenuating is key here but do do so and leave some body is the hard part
I think I need to better research dextrin and their effect on human metabolism since I am thinking that may be the way to go if they break down very slowly and release glucos little at a time like fiber then it could be a solution to the problem
Also making it more hop forward will help I think to take the emphasis off of the malt character to hide the thin body could be in order.

Well if anything, this is an endorsement for fully attenuated beers

 

[ba-brewer]

One other thing you can do is try playing with carbonation levels. Lowering the carb level like on the lower ABV English ales is suppose to help the body.

 

[schematix]

what about making a higher abv beer all together? Keep the attenuation ratio the same. Drink less of it?

 

[Bobbybob]

You could start turbid mashing like some Belgian beers. You can have full body and very little extra carbs. Or even a "round robin" (heating 140 to 160 and back to 140) mash The cost is time on your brew day.

 

[day_trippr]

what about making a higher abv beer all together? Keep the attenuation ratio the same. Drink less of it?

I see a possible problem here

 

[AzaaKhan]

you could mash higher temperature and get more body, but it will give you more higher sugars that dont ferment so you will get more calorie in your beer. Alcohol gives more calorie than unfermentable sugars, so better mash higher temp.

you can also use some caramel malts or some wheat malt to get some protein. or just use a little carapils/carahell/dextrinmalt, i think it would help your experiment

 

[dragonfire540]

you could mash higher temperature and get more body, but it will give you more higher sugars that dont ferment so you will get more calorie in your beer. Alcohol gives more calorie than unfermentable sugars, so better mash higher temp.



you can also use some caramel malts or some wheat malt to get some protein. or just use a little carapils/carahell/dextrinmalt, i think it would help your experiment

That is the direction a was thinking of going

Alcohol is higher in calories but it does not store excess calories as fat but rather stays in blood till liver processes it all. Your body will not uptake sugars while ethanol is on blood stream so those sugars go to fat
Hence why I am trying to come up with this

 

[dragonfire540]

Alcohol is higher in calories but it does not store excess calories as fat but rather stays in blood till liver processes it all. Your body will not uptake sugars while ethanol is on blood stream so those sugars go to fat
Hence why I am trying to come up with this

 

[schematix]

you could mash higher temperature and get more body, but it will give you more higher sugars that dont ferment so you will get more calorie in your beer. Alcohol gives more calorie than unfermentable sugars, so better mash higher temp.

you can also use some caramel malts or some wheat malt to get some protein. or just use a little carapils/carahell/dextrinmalt, i think it would help your experiment

Mashing higher will give the beer more residual sugar and thus better body, but more calories per unit alcohol.

OP can you post your current recipe?

 

[Rhaop]

Did anyone mention just plain ol flaked barley, add a pound or go nuts and add 2, but add some rice hulls for sparging reasons

 

[HollywoodMX]

6 row, flaked wheat and oats are the best options.

 

[hobomoto]

Even though you stated you don't like saisons, I'd still encourage you to give belle saison or 3711 a try. They arn't like a normal saison strain. I got a lemony sort of character the couple times I tried it. Pretty clean too. You might try fermenting at a lower temp to see if you can get a cleaner profile. I fermented pretty warm. High 70s, low 80s

 

[HollywoodMX]

Even though you stated you don't like saisons, I'd still encourage you to give belle saison or 3711 a try. They arn't like a normal saison strain. I got a lemony sort of character the couple times I tried it. Pretty clean too. You might try fermenting at a lower temp to see if you can get a cleaner profile. I fermented pretty warm. High 70s, low 80s

The dansatar version of that is A$$.

 

[dragonfire540]

Here is what I brewed and wanting to adjust
For 7 gallons

OG 1.038
FG 1.008
3.9% ABV

Mashed at 67c (152f) Single infusion

Added calcium chloride to get 60 ppm calcium chloride dominated
90% 2-row briess 10 lbs
10% crystal 40. 1 lbs

37 ibu chinook for 60 minutes so 1 ounce
.5 ounce Amarillo for 10 minutes
.5 ounce Amarillo in whirlpool

1 ounce Amarillo dry hop 3 days
1 ounce Amarillo 3 days 2nd dry hop
Wlp001 yeast about 200 billion cells
Added clarityfirm
Biofine to clarify
Fermented at 68f steady
Filtered with medium filter pad


So I think use gypsum instead of chloride
Add in some oats and/or dextrin malt
Clarify with coarse 7micron filter
Ferment at 70f