Importance of cleaning valves

[aarong]

This is a quick reminder to newer home brewers

I always heard it was very important to clean everything in your brewery. I used to run PBW through all my valves, thinking that was enough. I started to get a nasty off flavor and was hunting it down. When I took apart my valves that I use on my brew kettle, kegerator, and mash tun, I found the culprit. There was nasty growth inside these valves! This is a quick tip. Take apart everything and soak it in PBW. The off flavors went away and I'm back to making good tasting beer. I have recently went a step further and bought easy to disassemble valves. Lesson learned!

Aaron

 

[ChelisHubby]

A lot off us have had a valve cause off flavors!

 

[pshankstar]

I have heard you should take them apart every couple of batches b/c of this issue. I have three batches through my boil kettle valve since it was last broken down and cleaned (after unpacking it). I'll probably clean it after the next batch, whenever that may be...

OP, did you take any pictures to share? I think it would be eye opening for some people.

 

[haanjamin]

Thanks for the reminder, I was going to do it before the last brew but was in a time crunch. I just counted up 30 brews since I got the kettle and haven't taken apart the valve once... Can't wait to see whats going on in there The beer is still tasting good though!

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

Might depend on the type of valve, but I broke down my Blichmann BK and HLT valves after many many batches, and both were sparkling clean. I flush with hot water after each brew and then PBW 1-2 times per year

 

[kh54s10]

I lasted about 4 years before I cleaned my BK valve. Never an off flavor, though the thing was pretty gross. Guess I better look inside my mash tun valve.....

 

[oujens]

I found a bunch of nasty in a ball valve on my kettle one time. I break it down after every batch and soak them in oxy. I like weldless fittings for this reason so I can soak the threads. Of course, TC would be best.

 

[aarong]

I wish I had pictures to show how nasty it was. The boil kettle valve (ball valve) was coated with a black gunk. The worst was my tap. I always ran PBW and sanitized but I was still getting an off flavor. I bottled half my batch and kegged the rest. Sure enough the keg one picked up some off flavor. So I dissembled everything and the valve was disgusting.

I'm sure multiple batches can be done before cleaning valves but I don't want to risk it because I put a lot of time and money into each batch. I'm also a BJCP judge which doesn't help. It's hard for me to drink something with even a small off flavor, I guess I'm paranoid now.

Cheers!

 

[wilserbrewer]

From what I've read, valves on a propane fired kettle will funk up worse than an e-kettle. The heat wash off the propane burner overheats the valve and can cause build up.

 

[jbunton]

Ball valves need to be cycled open/closed many times for each cleaning cycle. A small amount of stuff always gets behind the ball. If you cycle it when cleaning appropriately you'll never have an issue.

 

[sbsmann]

Even something as simple as the spigot on a bottling bucket I found a nasty growth of crap under the O-rings after just one use. I simply ran Oxy Clean through it thinking I was fine, let it all dry and then stored it. A month later when I went to use it, I could see a black substance on the clear o-ring. I took it apart and found more. It seems you pretty much need to take apart absolutely everything to clean and dry.

 

[Homercidal]

From what I've read, valves on a propane fired kettle will funk up worse than an e-kettle. The heat wash off the propane burner overheats the valve and can cause build up.

This sounds reasonable, but also the heat that causes it probably makes it sanitary, even though it looks gross.

I generally use a plastic brush to clean my BK valves after brewing. I can't be sure I'm getting all areas, though, so I've thought about buying the take-apart valves to replace the one-piece valves I have now. Just for the option of deep cleaning.

 

[haanjamin]

Thanks for the reminder, I was going to do it before the last brew but was in a time crunch. I just counted up 30 brews since I got the kettle and haven't taken apart the valve once... Can't wait to see whats going on in there The beer is still tasting good though!

Ended up taking it apart and it wasn't as bad as I thought it could be but still not something I want touching the beer. Some spots of black coating that looked like baked wort though no nefarious odors. Will clean more often now.

 

[augiedoggy]

I havent removed my weldless fitting since installing them other than to make changes... if they are liquid proof the funk cannot get in there either. constantly removing and reinstalling is not necessary and will short the life of the components like the seals. Also as mentioned the temps sanitize them.
I did pull a couple valves recently because another thread like this suggested it but my valves on my hot side were clean likely due to cycling them with pbw running through while cleaning... Now my valves on my conicals are another story. Those I disassemble often and clean between each use.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I think I'll start disassembling mine more often. This is the valve on my BK. I always run hot PBW, then rinse with water, then starsans. I feel like I already spend half of my brew day cleaning. FML.

 

[TheMadKing]

Ball valves need to be cycled open/closed many times for each cleaning cycle. A small amount of stuff always gets behind the ball. If you cycle it when cleaning appropriately you'll never have an issue.

This.

I always cycle my kettle valve 15-20 times with water running through it. I just took it apart for the first time after ~20 batches, and it was perfectly clean. I use propane as well.

 

[GoeHaarden]

From what I've read, valves on a propane fired kettle will funk up worse than an e-kettle. The heat wash off the propane burner overheats the valve and can cause build up.

I believe I am a victim to this...as I use propane to boil with.

My other valves were spotless...

 

[augiedoggy]

This.

I always cycle my kettle valve 15-20 times with water running through it. I just took it apart for the first time after ~20 batches, and it was perfectly clean. I use propane as well.

same here but with electric.... wondering why theres such a varying amount of results here..

 

[augiedoggy]

I think I'll start disassembling mine more often. This is the valve on my BK. I always run hot PBW, then rinse with water, then starsans. I feel like I already spend half of my brew day cleaning. FML.

it looks as if that valve got cooked.. the plastic looks partially melted inside.

 

[TheMadKing]

same here but with electric.... wondering why theres such a varying amount of results here..

I do use the heat shield that came with my propane burner to protect my valve. Maybe that's the issue for some?

 

[GoeHaarden]

it looks as if that valve got cooked.. the plastic looks partially melted inside.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I completely took it apart, and I'm not sure I can/want to salvage it. Those seals are permanently stained, and I'm not sure how much longer they have until they fail anyways. Supposed to have a brew day on Thursday, and my LHBS has valves priced crazy high.

Anybody used those heat shields from brewhardware? Worth it?

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I completely took it apart, and I'm not sure I can/want to salvage it. Those seals are permanently stained, and I'm not sure how much longer they have until they fail anyways. Supposed to have a brew day on Thursday, and my LHBS has valves priced crazy high.

Anybody used those heat shields from brewhardware? Worth it?

Buying new seals is cost-prohibitive. I bought a set of used gear and ran into some manky valves. I wound up replacing the valves outright - bargain fittings does indeed have some bargains.

I think the heat does have something to do with it - the keggle with the manky valves was used as a direct-fire mash tun and had a similar build-up under the false bottom. A wire wheel took it right off, but the valve was beyond help.

 

[schematix]

If I had a chance to redesign my brewery valving I'd do a mix of butterfly and pinch valves. Ball valves are a huge pain to clean.

Cycle them many times open and nearly closed with water running through them.

 

[jcav]

I went with butterfly valves on the outlets of my three main vessels and they work great. They are tri clover to, so very easy to take off and clean when I have to.

John

 

[MHBT]

I autoclave my valves,o2 stone every metal piece i use before i brew...im paranoid

 

[aarong]

I personally don't think propane vs Ekettle will make much of a difference. Unless if the flame is directly touching the valve. I have a keggle and the flames dont get over the bottom lip. The temperature of the valves should be very similar and close to 100 C. I think it comes down to cleaning process. Cycling the valve makes logical sense in the hot side when running hot pbw through it. I might give that a shot to see if it cleans the valves sufficently.

My largest culprit is the tap. That I will take apart every time now as it had some gunk built up in it and the valve is easy to take apart for me.

I did purchase one of the tri clamp valves from brew hardware but it is very large and will only really fit on my kettle. I personally am fine with the three piece valves. I keep a set of wrenches in my brewing kit and it comes apart quickly. I throw it all in an old bucket with pbw and let it soak overnight. Then drain and rinse with hot water. I throw it all back together. It does take extra time but I don't brew enough for it to bug me.

Aaron

 

[mattd2]

same here but with electric.... wondering why theres such a varying amount of results here..

My guess is how people are cleaning them. Whether they cycle the valves during cleaning or just leave them open and not realising that inside the valve body is a volume of wort that isn't being cleaned out.

 

[jbunton]

This.

I always cycle my kettle valve 15-20 times with water running through it. I just took it apart for the first time after ~20 batches, and it was perfectly clean. I use propane as well.

Ya the reason I know this is I'm a chemical operator and clean tanks multiple times daily. Our tracer dye chemicals always show when we cycle valves during cleaning. 10-15 times cycling the valves is usual. Sometimes more sometimes less.

 

[aarong]

Ya the reason I know this is I'm a chemical operator and clean tanks multiple times daily. Our tracer dye chemicals always show when we cycle valves during cleaning. 10-15 times cycling the valves is usual. Sometimes more sometimes less.

This is great advice thank you! It's nice to have a number for how many times to cycle while cleaning. I know I was not close to 10-15 times.

Aaron

 

[schematix]

Bottom line, ball valves suck.

I don't understand why pinch valves aren't more common in HB set ups. The are dirty simple and cheap. It's a glorified hose clamp!

 

[augiedoggy]

Bottom line, ball valves suck.

I don't understand why pinch valves aren't more common in HB set ups. The are dirty simple and cheap. It's a glorified hose clamp!

and I dont understand why the 3 piece valves are so often preferred over the 2 piece design which comes apart with the unscrewing of the end directly instead of all those nuts... cosmetics I think which is likely the answer to your question as well.

 

[MaryB]

I use my garden hose sprayer on its high pressure stream setting and cycle the valve on and off 20 times or so. I get wet doing it but the valves seem to be staying clean.

 

[The_Bishop]

and I dont understand why the 3 piece valves are so often preferred over the 2 piece design which comes apart with the unscrewing of the end directly instead of all those nuts... cosmetics I think which is likely the answer to your question as well.

For my setup (silver soldered fittings in kettle) a three piece is far, far easier to disassemble than a 'standard' ball valve. Also, of the two, the three piece is better designed for teardown/cleaning than a 'standard' ball valve. The parts that'll wear with disassembly are easily replaced (bolts and nuts) as well.

 

[mattd2]

For my setup (silver soldered fittings in kettle) a three piece is far, far easier to disassemble than a 'standard' ball valve. Also, of the two, the three piece is better designed for teardown/cleaning than a 'standard' ball valve. The parts that'll wear with disassembly are easily replaced (bolts and nuts) as well.

Both types are designed to be taken apart. The purpose of the three piece design is so the threaded parts can stay in position when servicing (such as you not wanting to touch the soldered part while cleaning out your valve)

 

[The_Bishop]

I'd say of the two, the three-piece is going to be more robust in the long term in regards to regular disassembly and cleaning. While the two piece valves *can* be disassembled, they're not really meant to be. That's why there's usually a type of threadlocker compound on the threads between the two pieces.

 

[mattd2]

I'd say of the two, the three-piece is going to be more robust in the long term in regards to regular disassembly and cleaning. While the two piece valves *can* be disassembled, they're not really meant to be. That's why there's usually a type of threadlocker compound on the threads between the two pieces.

Where do you get the idea that two piece valves are not meant to be disassembled? Remember that these valves are industrial items that us homebrewers have repurposed for our needs since they are cheaper than the valves a professional brewery would use and the extra effort to keep them clean isn't an issue like it would be for the pros.
The main reason ball valves are disassembled in an industrial setting is mainly to replace the seats and seals if they start to leak or pass fluid. If 2 piece valves are used the entire line would need to be disassembled to get the valve out, whereas with 3 piece valves the valve body can be pulled out to be serviced while leaving the valve ends in place.

 

[The_Bishop]

Two piece valves, by their very design, are not meant to be torn down for cleaning/repair. They're a disposable item. If you need to disassemble the plumbing going into and out of a valve to tear it down for cleaning or repair, it's not really meant to be torn down that way. A three piece valve, by it's very nature, can be disassembled for repair/cleaning without disturbing the original plumbing.

I've done actual work in actual industrial settings. If it was a valve that required cleaning/maintenance, it was a 3-piece. Also, two piece valves are *not* industrial items. They're generally for water plumbing.

 

[aarong]

My personal experience with two piece valves is that they're hard to seperate. If you have one that you can easily disassemble that's great and it would be much easier to take apart. I recently saw blichmans needle valve. Has anyone found a cheaper alternative to that design?