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Imperial Irish Red Ale critique

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HighlandRanger

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Title: Beoir Rí Brian Bóramha - Royal Irish Red Ale
Author: HighlandRanger

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: Imperial Irish Red Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.056
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.084
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 8.6%
IBU (tinseth): 50.8
SRM (morey): 16.71

FERMENTABLES:
8 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light (68.1%)
1.5 lb - Cane Sugar - (late addition) (12.8%)
0.75 lb - German - CaraMunich I (6.4%)
1.25 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (10.6%)
4 oz - American - Roasted Barley (2.1%)

HOPS:
0.9 oz - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.2, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 35.89
0.2 oz - Perle, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 40 min, IBU: 4.02
1 oz - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5.5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 10.89

YEAST:
Wyeast - Irish Ale 1084
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (custom): 78%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 62 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F
 
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HighlandRanger

HighlandRanger

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Anyone care to give their critique on this recipe? I plan on brewing this Friday or Saturday. I would like to get some opinions.

  • Does the combo of grains appear that it will provide the "garnet red" color that is an Irish Red?
  • Does it looked balanced (bu/gu)? I want it to be malty/caramel, not too sweet, not too hoppy, just right!
  • Will the table sugar be effective in "drying it out" without getting "hot"?
  • Is that an adequate amount of Roasted to give enough red color but not a "roasted" flavor?
  • Do the hops look good? I'm hoping the Magnum will give a clean hop at the beginning, the Perle will add a bit of spiciness and the EKG will give that earthy flavor.

I would appreciate any opinions on this. Thanks!
 

MetalandBeer

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I made an Irish red about 3 months ago and used 3 oz roasted barley, and it came out deep garnet. I think with the additional gravity coming from mostly pale extract and sugar would benefit from an extra ounce over what I used - 4 oz seems fine. And you won't (in my experience) get any roasty qualities from that little, just some added malty complexity.
The only real worry of mine with this beer is that it might be a bit sweet at 1.018 and 50 IBU, but I like my reds a little crisper. Irish reds aren't necessarily supposed to be hop focused, but I like mine with a bit of a hoppy bitterness to balance it out. It depends on what you like in your beer.
As long as you keep the temp under control, I wouldn't worry about too much hotness from the sugar, but at 8.6%, it's gonna need a little time to mellow anyways.

Brew it. Let us know.
 
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HighlandRanger

HighlandRanger

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Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping that with the extra "dryness" from the sugar, that the 50 IBUs will be more apparently balanced. I don't want it too much on the hop end, nor two sweet that it taste like a Wee Heavy. Just balanced. Drinkable.

Thanks for the words on the sugar too... I have a friend that keeps trying to tell me to use Turbinado or Belgian Candi because the Table Sugar will be too hot. But I agree with you, that at that low temp of fermentation... which as it seems right now, fermentation will probably be more around 65 deg. that I shouldn't have any hotness. I'm against Turbinado or Belgian Candi because I think it will leave to much sweetness and added color.

Well, I'm brewing on Sunday. So if anyone else has any thought, I'll be glad to hear it.
 

m00ps

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I love me some dry ass beers, but for an Irish Red I would never use sugar. It will just make it far too thin bodied for the style. 12.8% sugar is what I would do for like a DIPA or Belgian Tripel. What makes Irish Reds balanced is the malt character, which you are limiting by using that much sugar. I would definitely replace it with some base malt

Im not sure you or your friend have a good understanding of simple sugars are how thy affect beer. No syrups or sugars will leave any appreciable sweetness in a beer since they are nearly, or entirely all fermentable. Even stuff like honey ferments out dry. The "hotness" of a beer does not have anything to do with using any type of sugar. The hot flavors come from the alcohol level relative to the rest of the flavors. Too high abv and stressed yeast can lead to a beer tasting hot
 
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HighlandRanger

HighlandRanger

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I love me some dry ass beers, but for an Irish Red I would never use sugar. It will just make it far too thin bodied for the style. 12.8% sugar is what I would do for like a DIPA or Belgian Tripel. What makes Irish Reds balanced is the malt character, which you are limiting by using that much sugar. I would definitely replace it with some base malt

Im not sure you or your friend have a good understanding of simple sugars are how thy affect beer. No syrups or sugars will leave any appreciable sweetness in a beer since they are nearly, or entirely all fermentable. Even stuff like honey ferments out dry. The "hotness" of a beer does not have anything to do with using any type of sugar. The hot flavors come from the alcohol level relative to the rest of the flavors. Too high abv and stressed yeast can lead to a beer tasting hot
Man, this can be confusing. I know adding sugar will help dry it out but I also know there is the danger of thinning it out too much. Replacing sugar with base malt, I'm afraid it will cause it to be too sweet, like a wee-heavy, am I mistaken? If I replace the sugar with base malt, then should I increase the Hops IBUs?
 
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HighlandRanger

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Irish red ale generally has a medium-light to medium body.

Just did some calculation. So the desired Irish Red Ale bitterness-to-starting gravity ratio (IBU divided by OG) should be between 0.4 and 0.6.

BU:GU Ratio: 0.595
Apparent Attenuation: 78.60000000000001%
Perceived Bitterness Ratio: 0.610

So, does that sound right? Maybe replace most of the sugar with malt and leave a small amount of sugar, say maybe .75lbs?
 
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HighlandRanger

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Ok... so, removed the sugar, increase the base malt and added more CaraMunich I. The color is around 16SRM and the BU/GU ratio is 0.63. IBU at 52.15

Thoughts?

Title: Beoir Rí Brian Bóru - Royal Irish Red Ale #2
Author: HighlandRanger

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: Imperial Irish Red Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.065
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.082
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 8.52%
IBU (tinseth): 52.15
SRM (morey): 16.08

FERMENTABLES:
9.25 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light (78.7%)
1 lb - German - CaraMunich I (8.5%)
1.25 lb - German - CaraRed (10.6%)
4 oz - American - Roasted Barley (2.1%)

HOPS:
0.9 oz - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.2, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 33.28
0.2 oz - Perle, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 40 min, IBU: 3.72
1.5 oz - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5.5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 15.14

YEAST:
Wyeast - Irish Ale 1084
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (custom): 79%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 62 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)
 

ericbw

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Irish Red is malty with a touch of roasty. And remember that the higher the IBUs, the more malt it needs to balance. So I think it's right to skip the sugar. I've never used CaraRed or CaraMunich, but I get all the color from the roasted barley. I use some caramel to give it the body.

If you're using Briess Golden Light for your extract, then I THINK that has some carapils in it, so you get some body built in with that.
 
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HighlandRanger

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Irish Red is malty with a touch of roasty. And remember that the higher the IBUs, the more malt it needs to balance. So I think it's right to skip the sugar. I've never used CaraRed or CaraMunich, but I get all the color from the roasted barley. I use some caramel to give it the body.

If you're using Briess Golden Light for your extract, then I THINK that has some carapils in it, so you get some body built in with that.
Great. Thanks. I'm going to be using Muntons for my base malt, but it seems to always have enough body, as I have never had a thin beer yet. I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
 
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