Thinking of going with this yeast for a west coast IPA. I've used their Darkness before and it's nice not to need a starter . Any flagshipers out there I'd like to know how you liked it . Thanks all !
Imperial flagship
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Dgallo
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I love and all IMperial yeast. A24 is my favorite. Flagship should be good for west coast. Good floctuation and attention. Mild ester production.
my fav for a solid and clean west coast IPA
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Think I'll give it a shot. I'm gonna brew Saturday and cant get the yeast till Friday. From what I understand is you dont need starterd with imperial yeast. Thank you both for your thoughts.
Use a yeast calculator to estimate how many cells need to be pitched.
For a 5.5 gallon batch of 1.060 230 billion cells is recommended.
A 200 cell pack from Imperial that's only 3 weeks old (middle of March) only has 66% viability or 131 billion viable cells.
[EDIT] I doubt they use special packaging techniques, like WhiteLabs' PurePitch packs, devoid of oxygen, remaining close to the original cell count for the first 3 months. The original package count is already a tad short, by 30 billion or 13%. 200 billion vs. the recommended 230 billion. It's been going downhill since.
I think I would make a vitality starter 4 hours before pitching, ala Brulosophy. And pitch the whole thing.
Are you into saving fresh yeast out for later batches? If you do, save some of the vitality starter and make a fresh starter from that, for keeps.
Here's some info on their Imperial's yeast cultures:
https://www.imperialyeast.com/faq/
How much yeast is in the Imperial Pitch Right pouch?
200 Billion cells.
Do I need to make a starter before pitching the yeast?
The Pitch Right pouches were designed to give homebrewers enough yeast to direct pitch 5 gallons of wort. If the volume of the wort exceeds 5 gallons or the original gravity of the wort is higher than 1.070 (17P) more yeast may be required.
If I want to use a Pitch Right pouch in a starter, how big should the starter be?
Because there is so much yeast in each Pitch Right pouch, we do not recommend making starters smaller than 4 liters without a stir plate, or 2 liters with a stir plate. This will give you about the same amount of yeast contained in two Pitch Right pouches.
How long can I store Imperial Yeast Pitch Right pouches prior to use?
We recommend using the freshest yeast possible and back our yeast for 3 months past the manufactured-on date. Because we package 200 Billion cells in each pouch, the actual shelf life of the Pitch Right pouches may be much longer.
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@IslandLizard - I dont reuse yeast . Its gonna be a 5 gallon batch. However the OG is gonna be 1.073 so looks like I'm gonna have to do a starter dang it . I thought a starter had to be done 48 hrs before pitching . It will be ok just making the starter the night before? I'm also trying to lower the srm. I posted on the original thread . Knowing you , you have probably already responded to it lol. I really appreciate how much you respond to help people out.
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One thing I read is the flocculation is Med to Low. I've never cold crashed. Would sitting in a keg at 38 for a few days be enough fining? Or should I cold crash ?
Reusing yeast that's gone through fermentation (yeast harvesting) is different than saving out some yeast from a fresh pack or an overbuilt starter (yeast ranching), to be used in a next batch after making another starter, and so on. That yeast can be as good as the original pack as long as you use good sanitation. You can easily do that 5-10 times.
A vitality starter can/should be pitched when she's at her prime, usually 4 hours on a stir plate on brew day. She may not ramp up cell count in the starter much, but the cells are in tip-top condition, ready to tackle the large job. It's a different look at how a yeast pitch can be prepared, not just by cell count but by vitality of the available cells, and amazing how well it works. Look it up on Brulosophy.com. It's possibly elsewhere too.
Yes, a regular starter really needs 24-48 hours on a stir plate, then preferably cold crashed for a few days. You'd only pitch the settled slurry, not the 1.5-2 liters of oxidized starter beer on top.
Since you're asking, are you on a tight time schedule for this one?
38F is close to cold crashing temps, it may just take a little longer. 30-32F is preferred for the fastest clearing. Using some gelatin will help speed that up dramatically.
You could cold crash in a keg for days, weeks with or without gelatin if you want ultra clear beer, without worries about air ingress and oxidation.
But a little leftover haze won't hurt your ego, will it?
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I could use my son n laws freezer I used for my lager . I've never done it before I'll look on the forum and see how to. I do remember people said they put balloons on the end of the hose . Not in a big hurry to serve just have to brew it this sat .
No a little haze wont kill me lol. Maybe just keg it and set at 32 for a week
No a little haze wont kill me lol. Maybe just keg it and set at 32 for a week
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Flagship is a great clean yeast, i recently used it in an ipa, dropped from 1.062 to 1.008 in 4 days at 64F. Cold crashed for 5 days at 33F and fined with gelatin, nice clear ipa at 2 weeks. I pitched two seperate 1 litre starters (shaken, not stirred) into 12 gallons of wort.
That's a good alternative to a traditional stirred starter. Possibly as good or better than a vitality starter.
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Yeah, pitched at high krausen, the airlock was bubbling within 4 hours.
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I'm gonna get my yeast tomorrow. So I will do a starter . Hey Island you said when you doing a starter you dont pitch all the starter just the yeast at the bottom . How do you pour it out . I usually pour the whole thing in and still have yeast stick to bottom. I can imagine dumping the wort off top would make it harder getting all the yeast out .
- When the starter is done, 24-48 hours on the stir plate, it will be a thick light beige milkshake.
- Crimp the foil tight around the neck and cold crash it in the fridge for 2-4 days, depending on the yeast's flocculation characteristics.
- You'll end up with a 1/2" white creamy layer on the bottom of the flask and clear or nearly clear starter beer on top.
- Decant (pour off slowly and carefully) the starter beer. There's no point saving it.
- Leave a little starter beer behind (~1/2 - 1 cup, not critical, better a little more than not enough) or when a yeast trail starts to come to the neck.
- Swirl up the yeast cake on the bottom. It can be very thick and sticky on the bottom.
- Keep swirling and tilting until all the yeast is suspended. You want to get all of it in suspension.
- Pitch into your oxygenated wort.
- You may keep a little behind, about half a fluid ounce (15-20 ml) is fine and make a new starter from that. This is called yeast ranching.
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I use a foam stopper in the flask . Is that adequate?
Yes, that's fine. You could cover it with a piece of plastic wrap when sticking it in the fridge.
If you have a spare gallon jug (one of those clear wine jugs), you may want to do a 'shaken-not-stirred' starter (do a search) instead of using a stir plate. They don't need to get cold crashed and are ready in one day, 2 max, depending on how much time you spend shaking it.
GCGBrewing
Well-Known Member
I was listening to a Brulosophy podcast earlier today that talked about the fermented wort on top of a starter. They tested a beer with a starter that was decanted, and another where the fermented "beer" was added in with the yeast. Bottom line was, there was no noticeable difference between the 2.
http://brulosophy.com/2016/10/10/decanted-vs-full-yeast-starter-exbeeriment-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2016/10/10/decanted-vs-full-yeast-starter-exbeeriment-results/
I wouldn't consider a Brulosophy exbeeriment research, or providing any form of absolute proof. But it's very likely not many people, even seasoned homebrewers and beer drinking fanatics, can taste the difference either. Adding 10% of oxidized, weak starter beer to a batch may indeed not be detectable. I have drunk starter beer, and it's actually not all that bad. Mostly. It may give a decent base for comparing what different yeasts can contribute, like phenols, esters, and other flavor and aroma compounds, keeping in mind how it was produced (e.g., oxidation effects on them).
Also put it in context. In an IPA or Stout it's probably a lot easier to disguise than in lighter more delicate beers such as Lagers, Blondes, Milds, Bitters, etc. Or maybe not even there.
So yeah, there should be nothing wrong pouring the whole starter in, without cold crashing. That gives you a few extra days on the stir plate in case you've got really old yeast on hand. Or meet your tight brew schedule.
Don't forget to save out a half cup to a cup to make your next starter from. Many (home)brewers like to be frugal and save some money where possible. Yeast cost should not be a 1/4 of a batch.
Through the mail?
When you've pitched half or a bit more, start swirling and tilting to resuspend the yeast caked to the bottom. Pitch more, inspect the bottom by tilting the flask, and swirl until it's all suspended. If there's still any left, you could pour some of your batch's beer (wort becomes beer when you pitch yeast) into the flask and swirl some more. Just use good sanitation.
I am really urging you to overbuild starters (larger than needed to pitch) and save some out for a next batch. You could store the ranched starter in lidded mason jars, or 8-12 oz jelly jars in the fridge.
The yeast will settle out. Upon use, pour most of the clear starter beer off (decant), leave enough behind to swirl up the yeast cake. Cover/lid, let come to room temp (that's important) and add to your starter wort (which should be at room temp) in the flask. Make sure you get all the yeast out. I pour some starter wort in the mason jar to get the last drops, especially when it's thick. The difference between pitching 40 and 50 billion cells is quite significant at the beginning of a starter.
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I'm going to the HBS to get grain and the yeast . Looking into the shakin not stirred starter . How do you overbuild starters? Do you add more DME then needed for the amount of starter you need?
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Here is the procedure that I follow for the shaken not stirred starter method, I use a 1 gallon growler for a 1 litre starter.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.30
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks
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Zooksta
Well-Known Member
You want to pitch at high krausen which is usually around 18 hours after pitching yeast into the starter. I usually make the starter when I get home from work on a Friday evening and pitch the starter into the beer on Saturday around 2 PM depending on how the brew day goes.
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Thanks! gonna try that process . I have wlp940 . 2 cans of wort starter . Gonna shake the piss out of it . Then you put on a stir plate or just counter ?
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
I just leave it out on the counter with a peice of sanitized foil over the loosened cap.
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So I take it you dont decant in the fridge and just dump it in
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the point is to pitch while the yeast is active, if you were going to decant you would cold crash the yeast out of suspension first, defeating the purpose.
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Gotcha . Thanks man I appreciate it . I'm fixing to shake it up in a few and pitch tomorrow after noon. Gonna give it a shot.
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
F-yeah, happy brewing man! Let us know how it works out for you.
I wish I was brewing this weekend...
I wish I was brewing this weekend...
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Ok so did the shaken not stirred . Used can starter and shook the heck out of it . This was Friday eve. I pitched around 8 PM Saturday. Monday that sucker was rocking and nice layer of Krausen. Fermenting at 53f.
