Immersion Chillers

[bracconiere]

So i have a double coil immersion chiller...i just read a thread about counter flow chillers, i already knew it had to be counter flow for those, because i distill water with a still...But with an immersion chiller how important is it to keep the coil at the top of the pot? mines aged quite a bit over the years and likes to droop at the bottom, would be signifcant to bend it so most of the coil is at the top of the liquid again?

normaly i just drop it in and say f'it, it's ugly but wtf....but if i could save a few minutes chilling.....

 

[SanPancho]

Id think moving your wort around would be better than stretching the chiller taller. Saw significant improvement when I started using one of the cheap tan 24v pumps to recirc. Added 3/8 barb, silicone 3/8 tubing, barbed u to hook over kettle rim and barbed 90 as WP arm In wort. Much faster cooling, and after I pull the chiller I let it run another 5 min and have a nice trub cone in the middle.
not to say stretc won’t help at all, but with ic chillers it seems to me constantly moving wort makes biggest difference. (Aside from going with more/larger coils)

 

[bracconiere]

i do stir it when i walk by...and i use hop bags so don't whirlpool....

i think i'm asking about convection, and how much it would help the coolder wort at the top to be going to the bottom? i'd hate to ask % wise in the begginers forum....i still get protein haze in my beers, kinda always thought it's because it takes me to long to chili for a good cold break.....i tried adding 50' (or was it 25', whatever) more copper tubing to my chiller, but it still takes 20-25 minutes or so to get it down to 80f....


and i'm not going to spend $500 on a counterflow and the pump it'd need just for prettier beer......i guess i'm just trying to put the question on google at this point, i could easily find out with 5 seconds of streching.......

I know when you get them they look like this
https://www.morebeer.com/products/immersion-wort-chiller-superchiller-50-ft-12-fittings.html
but after a decade of using them they look like this...

edit: of course i got that center coil from a job i was working at when i was 18...off the bottom of a horse stall....so it never looked like the before photo, lol

 

[Transamguy77]

I don’t think stretching it will make a difference as much as moving either it in the kettle or wort around it. You could just get a cheap small pump to circulate the wort so you don’t have too, the constant movement will make a big difference In shortening the time.

 

[AkTom]

I used copper plumbing straps to keep mine from stretching.

 

[bracconiere]

View attachment 685014
I used copper plumbing straps to keep mine from stretching.

gives me an idea! some stainless bolts as legs for it! thanks!

P.S. (looks like yours, like mine could use a soak in PBW!

 

[bracconiere]

I don’t think stretching it will make a difference as much as moving either it in the kettle or wort around it. You could just get a cheap small pump to circulate the wort so you don’t have too, the constant movement will make a big difference In shortening the time.

really that's what i'm asking, is will convection of the hot wort to the colder wort if the cooler is at the top of the liquid help move/stir it naturally.....

 

[bracconiere]

couldn't save the pdf...but this is the idea....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...chdemo10.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2D28dXGzNpsJqvIvKEcrmE

 

[bracconiere]

 

[SanPancho]

and i'm not going to spend $500 on a counterflow and the pump it'd need just for prettier beer.....

what part of “cheap tan 24v pump” and 3/8 silicone tubing did you not understand? there’s no CFC involved or even mentioned.

and ”pretty“ isnt the point. hop bags work on hops. You’ve still got hot and cold break in the wort that should be separated out. Pretty is simply a sign you’re getting good break.

 

[bracconiere]

what part of “cheap tan 24v pump” and 3/8 silicone tubing did you not understand? there’s no CFC involved or even mentioned.

and ”pretty“ isnt the point. hop bags work on hops. You’ve still got hot and cold break in the wort that should be separated out. Pretty is simply a sign you’re getting good break.

??? i have no idea where cheap, or the color of a pump was mentioned before my first post? which was #1....i've got a 'cheap' aquarium pump for little distilling projects, but it can't even push water to the table top, and i have to set it in a bucket on the table with the column.....i started this thread to ask if keeping the Imersion chiller at the top of the hot wort would help create convection to chill it faster then it sitting at the bottom....

lol, and just to push back, your dog's ugly!

edit: now that i think about it, i'd hate to have to drop that POS in the kettle.....

 

[SanPancho]

you post first. I reply. Two posts, but that’s too much for you to follow coherently huh?

you wanted faster chilling. We tell you a better way to get it. Cheap too. if you’d prefer to ignore it, fine. Buy why rant about things nobody advised and talk smack about doing proper brewing techniques?

its almost like you don’t actually care about the quality of those 8 cent beers you brag about......

And yes, the dog might be ugly, but id bet the farm he still gets laid more than you!!

 

[bracconiere]

you post first. I reply. Two posts, but that’s too much for you to follow coherently huh?

you wanted faster chilling. We tell you a better way to get it. Cheap too. if you’d prefer to ignore it, fine. Buy why rant about things nobody advised and talk smack about doing proper brewing techniques?

its almost like you don’t actually care about the quality of those 8 cent beers you brag about......

And yes, the dog might be ugly, but id bet the farm he still gets laid more than you!!

you're very right i ignored it...it was off topic, i forgot....

and you're also very right your dog probably does get laid more then me....i'm to scared because of the gansters of the world, and saftey of my children because of them, it's why i drink, and trust me we're both glad i do.....


but anyway, check out the youtube vid on that science experiment to get back on topic.....


pre-edit:damn, just went back and re-read your original post, i see i even liked it...but i noticed the time stamp, that was last night, i'm trying to figure out a way to get up early for work easily...LOL, if at anytime people want to do a poll if they want me to leave the forum, feel free to post it! i can now.....

after thought actual edit: and the mods don't need to worry about the $25 a year, i'm good for it just so sane people can learn to brew......

 

[SanPancho]

ok- reset. let's take this moment of sobriety/mental clarity to run quick scenario by you.

Look up tan 24v pump on amazon. Like maybe 20 bucks i wanna say. example- hot water pump 12v dc

if you're using copper chiller, then just scrounge a piece long enough to go up over the kettle and back down inside, and then bend a 90 at the end so the wort starts a whirlpool. im guessing you probably have items on hand to make this work, just get yourself the pump.

you can stretch your current chiller taller, judging by the picture it will help some, but the real improvement is gonna be moving the wort around. the simple pump addition results is faster cooling AND better trub removal/break.

 

[bracconiere]

sobriety/mental clarity

lol, no actually i was still drinking morning coffee...now i have a few ciders in me, and i'd say that pump looks cool, or hot...how far up would it be able to push water? and i was about to ask how far up it could push, but low and behold, now i'm thinking slowly again....9.8ft....

lol, but now the question is, would it better to draw from the bottom and pump to the top, or vise versa? what if my coil was at the top or bottom which would be better?


edit: i do have some silicone co2 tubing.....and i'm thinking draw from the bottom, do my idea of stainless bolts to keep the coils at the top, and return to the top.....like convection on roids...hmmmmm, or in this case a 12v car battery charger....

 

[SanPancho]

i got had some camlock connectors on hand, so i put a camlock on the kettle drain port, and then at the end of boil i pop on the pump and set up the hose to recirc.

i guess it might not matter where exactly you put the pump, but realistically its just more practical to put it on the bottom drain. my rig consists of this...

the blue is the silicone tubing, the red parts are the u bend barb and the 90 barb which spins the whirlpool. but if you want you could just get a peice of copper tubing and bend it up over the kettle and put a 90 elbow bend on the end.

my drawing sucks, but you wanna adjust it so the wort shoots back out maybe an inch or two under the wort surface. that way the hot wort on top is being moved and mixed and chilled downwards. if you have the pump inlet and WP outlet both at the bottom, you'll tend to get a cool layer down low and the hot wort still up at the top, without much mixing.

like i said, if you can scrounge the copper for the tubing arm then you just gotta buy the pump and you're basically there.

 

[bracconiere]

i don't have a fancy drain valve, just a big pot....and your drawing is great! way better then how my day started!

now i'm going to get off topic on my own post, do you think this thing would work for pumping my mash wort up to my kettle on the stove? right now i have to drain from the island into 5 gallon buckets and lift the heavy ass mf'rs and dump them into my boil kettle one at a time....for the $20 pump that would definitely be worth it...

ok- reset.

edit and honestly, i'm glad InBev's subterfuge didn't work.....

and i'm not stupid i swear....i just had to insert quote into a new post then cut that and paste to insert that after the fact.....

edit #2: i still think your dog is ugly, but you're very right, i'm practically still a virgin.....lol

 

[SanPancho]

they're rated for like 6 or 7 feet of lift on the 12v unit i think, so if everything is pretty much on the same level i'd think it would be fine. search around the forum for these things and you can get an idea, "tan wort pump" or "dc wort pump". folks use them alot so i'd think you can do it. another option is to spend another 5 or 10 bucks and get the more powerful model. the 12v was the cheapest (the one i linked to above) and then if i recall i think there might have been an 18v, but not sure. definitely a 24v model.

 

[bracconiere]

well at least i got some tips about how to make sparging easier.....


guess i'll have to do my own experiments though on how much convection i can get cooling...buy a bottle of food coloring and add it to the pot with the coil at the bottom and top, to see how fast it mixes in....

 

[bracconiere]

once again off-topic, but....what do you think of using this and my 15 gallon fermenter to collect the sparge wort, then just a garden hose to pump it up to the kettle on the stove....?

https://www.harborfreight.com/110-H...BRmuwi2MeqIWj_xnuK2nXB2paa7RUFxAaAs3AEALw_wcB
looks like it''s metal so should be able to handle 150f wort.....and just plugs in.....be about the same price as $20 DC one that i'd need to get a power supply for.....

edit: damn, now that i think about it...it'd work for kegging too, so i don't have lift 10 gallons (80lb's) onto the table to siphon!

 

[SanPancho]

Not food safe.

 

[camonick]

looks like it''s metal so should be able to handle 150f wort..

The downloadable instructions say it’s only to be used for transferring water with a maximum temp of 77° F

 

[bracconiere]

The downloadable instructions say it’s only to be used for transferring water with a maximum temp of 77° F

damn, my tap water is hotter then that! what the hell use is that?

Not food safe.

neither is my barley...at this point this thread has degraded into me getting cussed, getting defensive, and just leaving me thinking i need to answer my own question and buy some food coloring to do an experiment with the chiller at the top or bottom....and see how fast the coloring mixes in each way....

 

[SanPancho]

Buy the goddamned tan pump already. Use amazon. If it doesn’t work then send it back.

 

[bracconiere]

Buy the goddamned tan pump already. Use amazon. If it doesn’t work then send it back.

LOL, you know my original question, which i should probably scroll to double check at this point...oh, never mind, i've lost track

i already knew it had to be counter flow for those

how important is it to keep the coil at the top of the pot?

i'm happy with my cloudy beer, just wonder if i should put the effort to keep the coils at the top of the surface.... 20 minutes or so to cool 10 gallons isn't bad, just like how a counter f chiller will still chill beer improperly configured to parallel flow, i'm wondering if i got it set up wrong.....

 

[Gruel]

Last Saturday I did exactly that experiment, and having the coil closer to the top doesn't really make a difference. The water coming out of the coil turns cold again very soon after moving the coil (it's hot, like the wort, immediately after either moving the coil or stirring the wort), and with the coil at the top there is still a buildup of a cold layer of wort at the bottom, and a hot layer on top.

This was with wheat beer wort. Now, if you are brewing cloudy pilsners, the outcome might be very different...