If I buy liquid yeast, do I have to make a starter?

[the_beer_nerd]

I've just bottled my first batch from Brewer's Best. And am now looking at Austin Home Brew supply for another kit.

Their kits give the option of liquid or dry yeast.

If I were to get the liquid, do I have to make a starter? It seems complicated to me.

All help appreciated.

 

[Shooter]

If it was a low gravity beer I might be okay with no starter, particularly with a Wyeast pack that is showing strong activity a few hours after smacking. However, I generally do make a starter with liquid yeast. It's not really that hard, depends on the size of the beer, but just making a liter of wort with some DME and adding the yeast to getting it going doesn't hurt. If you weren't going to pitch until the late afternoon or evening, you could just make it early that same morning. If you really want to do a proper starter, you might want to do it a day or two in advance. The point is, liquid yeast isn't that difficult. That being said, dry yeast is still a little easier and I use it 90% of the time, I do rehydrate before pitching.

 

[2005STi]

You should yes. Do you absolutely need to, no. No starter = under pitching. Proper pitching rates will yield yourself much better quality beer. Couple that with fermentation temp control and you'll be making great beer that may only need slight recipe and brew process tweaks.

If you can make a clean beer without contamination, you can do the same for a starter.

 

[hunter_le five]

While a starter is not required, it is strongly recommended. And I promise you, it's not as hard as you think.

That said, the first few times I brewed with liquid yeast, I just pitched it directly into the wort with no starter. It always came out drinkable. But it probably would have been better with a starter.

If you are adamant about not making a starter, I would suggest choosing the dry yeast option. But I would also encourage you to look into the process of making a starter. It's actually very simple.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Complicated? No.

Have to? No.

Preferred, possibly but not always necessary or warranted. But only makes sense when you learn how to manipulate yeast for byproducts.

 

[brewprint]

Some will say it is absolute. I disagree.

Healthy yeast will reproduce itself enough to eat all the sugar it can in their environment.

Starters are easy as pie. Don't be overwhelmed. My first starters I boiled DME and water then put it in an empty milk jug.

I currently have a stir plate and flask that does make a lot more yeast.

I do believe in bigger beers (6%+) a starter should be made.

The main reason that I make starters is because you only have to buy liquid yeast once. Make a larger starter than you need. When you're ready to pitch, put some in a pint jar and throw it in the fridge. Makes $7 liquid yeast cheaper every time!

 

[WissahickonBrew]

NO

... but at the same time, if you are growing your knowledge base enough to ask the question in the first place... go ahead and grow some more by doing it! The equipment necessary is attainable and it's not hard. Cheers!

I've just bottled my first batch from Brewer's Best. And am now looking at Austin Home Brew supply for another kit.

Their kits give the option of liquid or dry yeast.

If I were to get the liquid, do I have to make a starter? It seems complicated to me.

All help appreciated.

 

[z-bob]

My first attempt with liquid yeast was a 3 gallon "big beer" and I didn't make a starter. I knew I was underpitching, but I thought that would be a good thing in a Belgian beer (more belgiany character.) It worked just fine, but it took *forever* to finish. The judgement is still out on that beer, it's still conditioning.

I've since built a stirplate and will make a starter next time.

 

[solbes]

Yep, make a starter for every batch with liquid yeast. About the only exclusions for me are if its a low gravity (say sub 1.042) AND the yeast is fresh.

But to offset the extra work of making a starter (and they are really pretty easy), I do beers in series using the same yeast. Usually 3 or 4 brews with the same strain. So then you just harvest some of the yeast trub after racking out of primary and either direct pitch or wash and store in the fridge. That takes very little time at all.

 

[JonM]

NO

... but at the same time, if you are growing your knowledge base enough to ask the question in the first place... go ahead and grow some more by doing it! The equipment necessary is attainable and it's not hard. Cheers!

Very well said.

As for equipment, it could be that growler you have sitting around somewhere and the saucepan you have in the kitchen.

The process is super simple too - measure an ounce of DME per cup of water, boil for 10 minutes, cool it by letting the saucepan sit in a sink of cool tap water for a little while, swish some sanitizer around in the growler, pour the wort in, pour the yeast in, cover the top with sanitized foil, and that's it.

 

[USAFSooner]

For fresh yeast my rule of thumb is anything below 1.050 doesn't need a starter. 1.050-1.060 depends on how lazy I feel that day. 1.060 and above definitely.

If I'm using recycled yeast its a starter every time.

 

[midfielder5]

You don't have to, but when it isn't bubbling in 24-48 hours... you know why (you underpitched) and don't need start a new thread here asking why



cheers!

 

[the_beer_nerd]

NO

... but at the same time, if you are growing your knowledge base enough to ask the question in the first place... go ahead and grow some more by doing it! The equipment necessary is attainable and it's not hard. Cheers!

I really like this advice and you are right.

Given that this is only my second batch though, I'm thinking I ought to maybe keep it simple for the time being and focus on other areas of the process like fermentation temps and wort cooling procedures.

 

[the_beer_nerd]

Very well said.

As for equipment, it could be that growler you have sitting around somewhere and the saucepan you have in the kitchen.

The process is super simple too - measure an ounce of DME per cup of water, boil for 10 minutes, cool it by letting the saucepan sit in a sink of cool tap water for a little while, swish some sanitizer around in the growler, pour the wort in, pour the yeast in, cover the top with sanitized foil, and that's it.

lol ok this may sound weird but if it's that simple why do I see stir plates and beakers and flasks for sale?

 

[the_beer_nerd]

Very well said.

As for equipment, it could be that growler you have sitting around somewhere and the saucepan you have in the kitchen.

The process is super simple too - measure an ounce of DME per cup of water, boil for 10 minutes, cool it by letting the saucepan sit in a sink of cool tap water for a little while, swish some sanitizer around in the growler, pour the wort in, pour the yeast in, cover the top with sanitized foil, and that's it.

lol ok this may sound weird but if it's that simple why do I see stir plates and beakers and flasks for sale?

 

[hunter_le five]

lol ok this may sound weird but if it's that simple why do I see stir plates and beakers and flasks for sale?

To help oxygenate the starter. It's not mandatory, just helpful.
The alternative is just to give it a quick swirl every time you happen to walk by it, but even that's not mandatory.

And using a stir plate doesn't make it complicated. If anything, it makes it even more of a set-it-and-forget-it endeavor. You can build (or buy) one pretty cheap.

 

[JonM]

You can do a simple starter with a jug and foil (like I did for 3-4 years with great success) or you can use a stir plate (which I've only used for 2 batches so far.) Both ways work - the stir plate is just a more efficient way to do it.

 

[jtratcliff]

Just because you *can* use a flask & stir plate doesn't mean you *have* to....

My first starters were made in 1 gallon glass jug with foil on top. I'd give it a shake when ever I happened to walk by to aerate.

 

[thekraken]

I needed a larger starter than my small flask could handle and didn't have time to do a bunch of steps. So I just bought a plastic 1 gallon jug of spring water, use that water for the starter, and reused the same jug as the starter fermentation vessel. Worked out great.

On a side note I did test it to see if it would work on the stir plate and it would have only it was annoyingly noisy.

 

[IDoBleedBrew]

Yeah, there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to starters. But don't let the stir plates and Erlenmeyer flasks intimidate you... it is still super simple. I built my own stir plate for just a few bucks with mostly parts laying around the house. You don't NEED a flask, but there are some benefits to a nice one (volume measurements on the side and if you get a Pyrex one, you can boil your starter wort right in it on a gas stove... but watch for boilovers).

Building the stir plate was fun (I like to tinker) and it only took a few hours and a few bucks. The starter itself: half a cup of DME in a liter of water... boil for 15 minutes, cool, the toss in the yeast, throw sanitized foil on top of the flask and start it up. The first time I let it run for 24 hours then threw it in the fridge for 24 hours to cold crash then decant and come to room temp before pitching.

It may sound like a lot of additional work, but it really isn't. After you do it a few times... I could see it really only being a few minutes of work on top of watching that wort to make sure it doesn't boil over once you get the process down.

 

[rmyurick]

Everyone will have a slightly different opinion on this. I think the manufacturers recommend a starter for a 5 gallon batch if the OG is above 1.050. You probably should do a starter, but if the yeast is very fresh, it probably won't matter. You may get more esters from an underpitch.

 

[jethro55]

Here's the option for the lazy brewer - buy two vials of fresh yeast and pitch them both.

 

[shetc]

I found this article to be very helpful : http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php

 

[the_beer_nerd]

I found this article to be very helpful : http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php

Thank you for that link.

 

[hopjunkie26]

I will agree with what other said, it is way simpler than it may appear to someone who has never made a starter before. I was hesitant to make a starter at first, but after my first attempt I was like "well that was nothing to stress about...".

While you don't have to have a yeast starter, being prepared to make one is a good idea for one simple reason. When you order liquid yeast from an online retailer, you don't know the age of that yeast. If it is getting old, you will want to make a starter for sure. If it's fresh, well, you can probably get away with not making a starter.

But adding a starter to my brewing was definitely a step towards better beer.

 

[kombat]

It may sound like a lot of additional work, but it really isn't.

It's even less work if you pressure-can your starter wort ahead of time.

Get home from work, smack the yeast pack. Have supper, watch TV. Before going to bed, swirl some StarSan in a flask, dump in a few jars of canned starter wort, shake it to aerate, pour in the yeast, put it on the stir plate and go to bed. 5 minutes total, tops.

 

[brewprint]

It's even less work if you pressure-can your starter wort ahead of time.

Get home from work, smack the yeast pack. Have supper, watch TV. Before going to bed, swirl some StarSan in a flask, dump in a few jars of canned starter wort, shake it to aerate, pour in the yeast, put it on the stir plate and go to bed. 5 minutes total, tops.

How much time do you have in pressure canning that wort? That's a major job there (at least when we pressure can fish) so I don't know that you're really saving time. However it would be doing different steps at different times.

I've seen others on this site say that they just take the dme and water and go for it. No boiling or anything.

 

[kombat]

That's a fair point, it takes a little time to set up the pressure canner, mix in the DME, funnel it into the jars and all that. I don't really count the time it's heating up and sterilizing, because I don't really need to be paying attention for that part, but you're right that it's really just moving the time around (and it might actually end up taking MORE total time).

However, the nice thing is that I can do it at my leisure, when I have a free evening, and once it's done, the canned wort can just sit on the shelf until it's needed. Then if I decide to brew at the spur of the moment, I don't need to commit an evening to prepping a starter - it's literally just 5 minutes.

 

[grevengrevs]

lot of interesting info in the thread. Up until this point i have not used a starter but my parts for a stir plate should be arriving soon. Then we can start cooking with fire!

 

[IDoBleedBrew]

I'm really interested in that canning starter wort. I never thought of that but that is a great idea. Yeah it may be a little more time up front, but the convenience of just grabbing a couple of jars when you need it, sterilize, dump, pitch and go... that is great!

 

[brewprint]

That's a fair point, it takes a little time to set up the pressure canner, mix in the DME, funnel it into the jars and all that. I don't really count the time it's heating up and sterilizing, because I don't really need to be paying attention for that part, but you're right that it's really just moving the time around (and it might actually end up taking MORE total time).

However, the nice thing is that I can do it at my leisure, when I have a free evening, and once it's done, the canned wort can just sit on the shelf until it's needed. Then if I decide to brew at the spur of the moment, I don't need to commit an evening to prepping a starter - it's literally just 5 minutes.

Since you brought it up I may do this as well. I think its a great idea. Moving time around is nice.

I just finished making a starter. Getting everything around and cleanup is 45 minutes. Maybe an hour.

 

[z-bob]

I pressure-canned 6 or 7 pints of starter last month using some old LME from the freezer, so I'll always have some on the shelf and ready to go. It was pretty easy to do.

 

[thekraken]

What are the risks, if any, of botulism?

 

[JonM]

I think pressure canning wort is more to kill wild yeast spores (which can survive boiling) than to kill botulism, although killing botulism is a good thing.

 

[jtratcliff]

The way I understand it, botulism is precisely the reason for pressure canning. If it were just about wild yeast, you could boil your wort, sanitize your jar, fill'er up, slap on a lid and be good.

It's takes the temperature and pressure of proper pressure canning to kill the botulism spores.


Edit to add:

The No-chill method does, indeed, just boil, package, and store. Sometimes for months. The risk of botulism is small but non-zero.

 

[thekraken]

The way I understand it, botulism is precisely the reason for pressure canning. If it were just about wild yeast, you could boil your wort, sanitize your jar, fill'er up, slap on a lid and be good.

It's takes the temperature and pressure of proper pressure canning to kill the botulism spores.


Edit to add:

The No-chill method does, indeed, just boil, package, and store. Sometimes for months. The risk of botulism is small but non-zero.

I thought home canning still didn't get hot enough to kill the botulism bug?

 

[jtratcliff]

Pressure canning can kill botulism spores, if done correctly:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/HomeCanning/

Just boiling water canning doesn't.

And even with a pressure canner, you need to go the right length of time at the right pressure and temperature.

 

[chxgh]

Yep, make a starter for every batch with liquid yeast. About the only exclusions for me are if its a low gravity (say sub 1.042) AND the yeast is fresh.

 

[Ivypunx]

No you dont need to. It would help but it isnt a necessity.

 

[ArcaneXor]

If you don't like the thought of making starters, buy Omega Yeast, Gigayeast, or East Coast Yeast. Those have 150-200 billion cells in them. Wyeast and White Labs are closer to 100 billion. Or you can just buy two vials.