Ice cider without the work

CornyKegs 728
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I've done (2) 1gal batches so far using S04 & 71B....both without any nutrients added. Both turned are pretty darned good...though I prefer the S04 batch. Larger 3-5gal batch planned for sometime soon.

Good luck! [emoji111]
 
I have some well overdue updates; here they are: I changed yeasts to 4184 Sweet Mead Yeast and only use the 4184 for my hard cider/apple wine(ice cider)/applejack. My last batch of ice cider was fermented at 36*F and the 4184 worked flawlessly. I have got to get some more started as I am down to five 12 oz bottles, and it does get better with age. I used the staggered feeding method by continually adding FAJC to a healthy fermenting hard cider, and the cool thing was, even though the cider was still fermenting in the bottles, they were crystal clear when I drew off samples. I did not keep perfect notes on the aforementioned batch so I will be guessing a bit on the next batch I make. It was pretty much feed and forget for the longest time. I am going to make an apple-peach version next as I really the combination of these two flavors together. Although the next time I will keep detailed notes as I go along.
 
On 3/17...I Fired up a batch of "cheaters" ice cider using S04...so we'll see if I can get it near 13%.

22 12oz cans FAJC
2gals AJ
OG - 1.12

Room temp 63-66F

...no nutrients or additives

Some will be used for applejack [emoji111]

Will be checking SG at the 7day mark...plan to cold crash around 1.02
 
bmd2k1 said:
On 3/17...I Fired up a batch of "cheaters" ice cider using S04...so we'll see if I can get it near 13%.

22 12oz cans FAJC
2gals AJ
OG - 1.12

Room temp 63-66F

...no nutrients or additives

Some will be used for applejack [emoji111]

Will be checking SG at the 7day mark...plan to cold crash around 1.02
Click to expand...
Day7 fermentation still humming along nicely....SG 1.046 - so at about 9.6% ABV currently...point drop was a bit more than I was expecting for 1week.
 
bmd2k1 said:
Day7 fermentation still humming along nicely....SG 1.046 - so at about 9.6% ABV currently...point drop was a bit more than I was expecting for 1week.
Click to expand...
SG 1.037 at 14day mark...so ~10.8%
 
MindenMan said:
I have some well overdue updates; here they are: I changed yeasts to 4184 Sweet Mead Yeast and only use the 4184 for my hard cider/apple wine(ice cider)/applejack. My last batch of ice cider was fermented at 36*F and the 4184 worked flawlessly. I have got to get some more started as I am down to five 12 oz bottles, and it does get better with age. I used the staggered feeding method by continually adding FAJC to a healthy fermenting hard cider, and the cool thing was, even though the cider was still fermenting in the bottles, they were crystal clear when I drew off samples. I did not keep perfect notes on the aforementioned batch so I will be guessing a bit on the next batch I make. It was pretty much feed and forget for the longest time. I am going to make an apple-peach version next as I really the combination of these two flavors together. Although the next time I will keep detailed notes as I go along.
Click to expand...
What ABV do you typically get ur ice ciders up to with 4184?
 
Do you guys know that juice concentrate is made by boiling off the water?
Presumably along with a good portion of the flavor compounds.
 
Or you can make it yourself by freeze concentrating fresh pressed juice.
 
Everything I have been told is the apple juice is freeze dried into a soluble powder, and water is added back to make the concentrate.
 
MindenMan said:
Everything I have been told is the apple juice is freeze dried into a soluble powder, and water is added back to make the concentrate.
Click to expand...
IDK- maybe different companies use different methods? Everything I found on Google suggests that juice is boiled to evaporate the water. Though they do attempt to capture aromatics to reincorporate them.

http://allaboutbeer.com/apple-juice-concentrate-cider/

http://www.engineering-bp.com/en/ne...n-of-juices-and-concentrates-in-a-nutshell/34

https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/11408/juice-concentrate-manufacturing-and-process

http://www.gatfoods.com/pages/How Juice Concentrate is made?.aspx

https://www.modernmom.com/2e061a40-051f-11e2-9d62-404062497d7e.html

Etc.
Just wanted to post as an FYI that a lot of undesirable processing takes place on store-bought juice concentrate.
I'm still planning to make a batch since I already bought the concentrate ;)
 
Pulled the trigger today actually.

Great Value brand FAJC had SG of 1.198. Diluted to 1 gal of 1.140 (32.3 Brix).
Rehydrated 8g r-hst (8x the suggested amount) at 104F, cooled, pitched at 64F, & cooling to 51F.
Stated tolerance of 15% ABV; Predicted FG of 1.025.

I'll add nutrient at 1/3 sugar depletion if I catch it in time.
 
RPh_Guy said:
Pulled the trigger today actually.

Great Value brand FAJC had SG of 1.198. Diluted to 1 gal of 1.140 (32.3 Brix).
Rehydrated 8g r-hst (8x the suggested amount) at 104F, cooled, pitched at 64F, & cooling to 51F.
Stated tolerance of 15% ABV; Predicted FG of 1.025.

I'll add nutrient at 1/3 sugar depletion if I catch it in time.
Click to expand...


How many cans of FAJC?

Nevermind, it's in post 43. I see 22 cans. How much did that cost you?
 
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Schlenkerla said:
How many cans of FAJC?

Nevermind, it's in post 43. I see 22 cans. How much did that cost you?
Click to expand...
Post 43 wasn't me.

I used 8 cans (12 fl oz each) for 1 gallon. I think the price per can was around $1.40 USD, so around $11/gal.
It is probably re-branded Old Orchard. The packaging and ingredient list are completely identical.
 
RPh_Guy said:
Pulled the trigger today actually.

Great Value brand FAJC had SG of 1.198. Diluted to 1 gal of 1.140 (32.3 Brix).
Rehydrated 8g r-hst (8x the suggested amount) at 104F, cooled, pitched at 64F, & cooling to 51F.
Stated tolerance of 15% ABV; Predicted FG of 1.025.

I'll add nutrient at 1/3 sugar depletion if I catch it in time.
Click to expand...
How high does your hydrometer go? Mine stops at 1.16
 
bmd2k1 said:
How high does your hydrometer go? Mine stops at 1.16
Click to expand...
Good question. Mine also stops at 1.160.

I made a 50% dilution (by volume) which read 1.099. Just double the gravity points to get 1.198.

The dilution math: I wanted to target 1.140, 58 points lower than the concentrate. 58/198 is 29% ... The percentage of water I needed.
Google converted 0.29 gal into mL for me. I measured the water in grams (used it for the rehydration process) and then topped up to target volume with the concentrate. Hit my target OG within 1 point.

FG 1.025 was my ultimate goal, so we'll see how well the yeast does.

EDIT: An alternate method to determine gravity would be to measure the temperature of partly melted concentrate and use the freezing point depression to calculate the sugar concentration. Not really sure how accurate this would be though. Td = m*Kf
 
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How long do your fermentations normally take? It's still going and I feel like I should intervene somehow.
 
question... do I need to add potassium s before I jack it ? if I didn't can I add it afterwards ?? just wondering because I had jacked some cider recently and didn't add any potassium... so when I put in jars and leave at room temp to age will fermentation began after I have jacked it ??
 
This thread is about faux ice cider, which is different than apple jack.

When you say potassium, do you mean potassium sorbate? Sorbate is the active part.
If you are bottling with residual sugar it's a good idea to stabilize with sulfite + sorbate.
 
Bottled today.
Tastes excellent. The Old Orchard juice has great spicy apple flavor.
FG ended up at 1.059 down from 1.140 ... sweeter than I wanted but can't complain.
Definitely making this again!
Cheers
 
I don't have the numbers in front of me this minute, but whatever the BJCP standard is for Ice Cider I hit the numbers they require. IIRC, I bottled my I/C at 1.068 which is quite a bit of residual sugar; a year of bottle aging later, my I/C is just amazing; there is no oxidation or anything else going on, just fine apple goodness. As I am sure I have said before, "I wish I would have made a bigger batch." Friends of mine that have purchased "store bought" I/C, have told me how much better is what I make versus what they purchased. One of my friends is a former wine merchant with a palette far beyond the reach of mine, and if he says mine is better, then that is a compliment I can take to the bank as they say. I will say my I/C is fermented at 34*F for at least six months, and I believe due to the low off-gassing of the fragrance of the apples, more stays in my I/C as doesn't get blown off in CO2 production. I believe I should also tell you my I/C is fermented under the pressure created by the fermentation.
 
MindenMan said:
I don't have the numbers in front of me this minute, but whatever the BJCP standard is for Ice Cider I hit the numbers they require. IIRC, I bottled my I/C at 1.068 which is quite a bit of residual sugar; a year of bottle aging later, my I/C is just amazing; there is no oxidation or anything else going on, just fine apple goodness. As I am sure I have said before, "I wish I would have made a bigger batch." Friends of mine that have purchased "store bought" I/C, have told me how much better is what I make versus what they purchased. One of my friends is a former wine merchant with a palette far beyond the reach of mine, and if he says mine is better, then that is a compliment I can take to the bank as they say. I will say my I/C is fermented at 34*F for at least six months, and I believe due to the low off-gassing of the fragrance of the apples, more stays in my I/C as doesn't get blown off in CO2 production. I believe I should also tell you my I/C is fermented under the pressure created by the fermentation.
Click to expand...
Dig the faux ice cider chatter...one of my fav things to make & quaff! [emoji111]

Wow...that's a ton of residual sugar....what was ur starting SG?

I typically start in the 1.13-14 range and end 1.022-025 and the I/C is plenty sweet.

My fav higher ABV yeast is D47 which typically ferments 30days. I also use S04 for 10-12% batches...which typically ferments 7-10days.

Cheers & enjoy!
 
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I really don't know why but even with that much residual sugar the I/C is not cloyingly sweet; there is a lot of balanced acid and a just silky mouth feel that I can not accurately describe. Just like my applejack as time passes there is less up front sweetness and less up front alcohol noticeable. My starting O.G. as much as I can calculate is somewhere north of 1.130.
 
MindenMan said:
I have some well overdue updates; here they are: I changed yeasts to 4184 Sweet Mead Yeast and only use the 4184 for my hard cider/apple wine(ice cider)/applejack. My last batch of ice cider was fermented at 36*F and the 4184 worked flawlessly. I have got to get some more started as I am down to five 12 oz bottles, and it does get better with age. I used the staggered feeding method by continually adding FAJC to a healthy fermenting hard cider, and the cool thing was, even though the cider was still fermenting in the bottles, they were crystal clear when I drew off samples. I did not keep perfect notes on the aforementioned batch so I will be guessing a bit on the next batch I make. It was pretty much feed and forget for the longest time. I am going to make an apple-peach version next as I really the combination of these two flavors together. Although the next time I will keep detailed notes as I go along.
Click to expand...


Curious how 4184 does at warmer temps -- say in the 70s? It's spec sheet range is 65-75F....though obviously it does just fine in the 30s for ya :)
 
"This cryo-extraction method doesn't preserve the fresh tart flavors of unique apple varieties the way our cryo-concentration method does."
... That's interesting. I really wouldn't have thought cryo-concentration is superior. Good to know.

I'm slowing collecting FAJC for a 6 gallon batch. They only stock so much at a time.
 
anyone else doing Faux ice ciders on a regular basis?

This really is one of my fav ciders to make. Gonna crank out one more big batch (5-6gals) prior to summer and will be using D47. What I make is drinkable immediately and typically in the high 13 to low-mid 14% range - with a FG in the 1.025ish to 1.03ish range -- stuff is awesome!

Would dig hearing from others that love their Faux ice ciders.
 
Wow, it is great to read about all the Ice Cider interests here! I have a two-year old batch of ice cider waiting for me in the back of a dark closet. There is a local contest coming up in April of this year, and the judges are seasoned BJCP judges. I may be the only Ice Cider entrant, but I am sure there will be numerous hard cider entries. I will blend it at the last minute before submitting it to the panel of judges to get the acid balance right if needed. I will let you all know after the competition how I scored. Oy!,OY,OY!.
 
MindenMan said:
Wow, it is great to read about all the Ice Cider interests here! I have a two-year old batch of ice cider waiting for me in the back of a dark closet. There is a local contest coming up in April of this year, and the judges are seasoned BJCP judges. I may be the only Ice Cider entrant, but I am sure there will be numerous hard cider entries. I will blend it at the last minute before submitting it to the panel of judges to get the acid balance right if needed. I will let you all know after the competition how I scored. Oy!,OY,OY!.
Click to expand...


Awesome....Good Luck! What's your go to yeast for your ice ciders? Is it aging in anything special? When ya tweak the acid do ya use a blend or straight malic? What's ur typical FG? (Curious ice fans...) [emoji16][emoji111]
 
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4184 Sweet Mead Yeast is my favorite/only Cider yeast. It ages in the dark in 12 oz glass bottles with standard caps. I use the 3 acid blend as the 4184 isn't a "malic acid converter" strain of yeast.
And for all the "Curious Ice Cider fans that just want to know...", my Ice Cider falls right into BJCP guidelines. My O.G. was 1.160 average, and my F.G. is 1.065. I have not titrated to find the exact pH but it feels right in the mouth when tasted. The next time I start a new batch, I will document everything, (and that will probably ruin it, LOL) so I can reproduce batch after batch in the future. This last batch fermented with timed additions of FAJC and they were not all perfectly documented either.
 
MindenMan said:
4184 Sweet Mead Yeast is my favorite/only Cider yeast. It ages in the dark in 12 oz glass bottles with standard caps. I use the 3 acid blend as the 4184 isn't a "malic acid converter" strain of yeast.
And for all the "Curious Ice Cider fans that just want to know...", my Ice Cider falls right into BJCP guidelines. My O.G. was 1.160 average, and my F.G. is 1.065. I have not titrated to find the exact pH but it feels right in the mouth when tasted. The next time I start a new batch, I will document everything, (and that will probably ruin it, LOL) so I can reproduce batch after batch in the future. This last batch fermented with timed additions of FAJC and they were not all perfectly documented either.
Click to expand...

Excellent! Haven't used 4184 to this point -- how long of a ferment is it? how are the lees? do you cold crash? I've yet to start/finish at those high of gravity points :) Best of Luck in your upcoming contest -- keep us posted --- Cheers!
 
I found out by accident that 4184 fermenting at temperatures less than 60F produced some great stone fruit flavors: apricot, peach, and even a touch of banana. Trust me the banana flavor is so very light, but so wow what is that. I ferment my ice cider using the staggered addition method to prevent choking out the yeast. I generally ferment my ice cider at less than 40F and the yeast keeps working just fine, but it took me almost 6 months for the fermentation to finish.
 
20190326_192901.jpg

20190326_193731.jpg


It's on!
 
OG is 1.128.

My 1 gal pilot batch was amazing so I'm sticking with the same yeast.
However I'm using a different pitch rate and rehydration/nutrient protocol for this 7 gal batch.
I lowered the OG so it won't be quite so sweet.
It's going to ferment at 50°F.

$2100 worth of ice cider!
 
well -- Eden's ice ciders go for $27-30 per 375ml bottle. 7gals of faux yields about 70 of those 375ml's. :) I too like to think of my faux ice cider bounty as a treasure found :)

Cheers!

Blacksmith1 said:
Wait...what!?!
That seems a bit excessive.[/QUOTE
Click to expand...
 
Blacksmith1 said:
$2.1 K is $300 per gallon. That's about $30.00 per can. I don't know where you guys shop but I can get it for $2-$3 a can.
Click to expand...
This ain't regular cider ;)

$30 / 375mL bottle seems fairly standard.

Tell me I'm wrong and you buy cheap cans of ice cider. What brand?
 

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