I Want a Gronola Bar in a Glass!

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bracconiere

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Ok, i think this is the right forum for this question.


I know IPAs and NEIPAs, are the rage! But when i want pine needle tea, i have a pine tree. Great source of vitamin C BTW......and can, and have made pine needle tea...

But my favorite beers are usually lucky mistakes. they taste like a gronala bar, but like in liquid form. i don't think i'd have to put any more effort into it?

I don't know what i do differently any time brewing, when i luck out and get one. maybe my malting process is different? but i've gotten them with store bought malt a few times too.

Anybody with some off the wall crazy ideas to help get my creative juices flowing? my best description, would the malty i WANT is more like John Wayne, and not Steven Seagul?
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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"granola"
"Gronola" sounds like food one regrets eating later...

Cheers! ;)

good catch! lol :mug:

at any rate i want whole wheat style beer, not Wonder bread......

i swear i use the same ingredients, same tech. but only once every few years get a truly malty brew....
 

day_trippr

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Have you ever tried brewing with a commercial base malt like Golden Promise or Maris Otter?
There are some GP brews I do that leave me remarking to myself "that's a nice malty note there".
Not all of them hit that solidly though - I still have much to learn on tuning grain bills for specific characters...

Cheers!
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Have you ever tried brewing with a commercial base malt like Golden Promise or Maris Otter?
There are some GP brews I do that leave me remarking to myself "that's a nice malty note there".
Not all of them hit that solidly though - I still have much to learn on tuning grain bills for specific characters...

Cheers!

no, but trying to find out about how it's malted gave me the idea, maybe what i'm looking for is a 100% Victory Malt sorta taste? not sure i've ever brewed with victory, but now i'm thinking of trying my next kilning some way to try and gget it biscuity, but not 40L munichy?
 

Barbarossa

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Ok hear me out. This idea is even better knowing that you can malt your own grain so the cost can still be low.

Triple your grain bill and add whatever the amount of water that the extra double grain will absorb.

Full volume, no sparge. So basically, you'll get very low efficiency, but you'll get your 1.050, same amount of water, and a truckload of malt flavor.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Sometimes flavor comes with calories. Seems to me the gluco reduces sugars and adds ethanol - perhaps no real calorie increase though maybe metabolized differently. Maybe give your scale a beer to drown its sorrows 😀
my scale is already drinking i think, everytime it gets humid the tenth digital is all tipsy and dts and display's wonky!

Ok hear me out. This idea is even better knowing that you can malt your own grain so the cost can still be low.

Triple your grain bill and add whatever the amount of water that the extra double grain will absorb.

Full volume, no sparge. So basically, you'll get very low efficiency, but you'll get your 1.050, same amount of water, and a truckload of malt flavor.

honestly......?????? i'd need a way to strain it, so bigger mash tun....but being i just spent $72 on 40lbs of victory malt, and that would just cost $12.99 to make.....


i like that, so just get a super thick mash...and not water it down? i'm not joking you got me thinking on that! so like a barley wine style brew, but i'm only shooting for 1.060? 🤔

edit: you also got me wondering if my sparge water temp could be cooler? i usually don't measure it.....i'm brewing tomorrow, i might just use room temp water, i've read. it wouldn't matter? at any rate i can report back if i get crappy effec or not....
 
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The maltiest most rustic and delicious beer I've ever tasted was an organic emmerbier I used to buy at Alnatura. I can't remember what emmer is in Englisch but you should give it a try. Amazing flavor and complexity in a hefeweizen style, almost had to chew it. Some special b and victory would put it over the top IMO.

Edit: Riedenburger was the brewery. Delicious beer, definitely reminded me of meusli.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Some special b and victory would put it over the top

i plan on brewing a 10gallon batch with 100% victory 20lbs.....just to try and dial in my kilning temp....before i modded my oven my beers with home malt were always black, good, good enough to drink for 2 years anyway, but once ONE batch came out light and it was SOOOOOOOOOO Malty! thinking maybe it was winter or something, or maybe i was in a hurry and took it out of the oven before it got to dark? but the victory at 25L, will be an experiment....maybe i'll start kilning my malt in the morning instead of at night, so i can monitor the temp and pull it when it hits a certain one?
 
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Does victory have evough oomph to convert itself? I'm super intrigued, it has an amazing flavor. Could always dose it with some alpha/gluco! :rock:

What strain do you have in mind?
 

day_trippr

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I'm finding conflicting information wrt lintner power. One site (Briess) says 0, another random home brewer site says enough to self-convert. (50=ish).
I'd go with Briess - they're actually maltsters, after all - and I think they may actually own the "victory" trademark? :D

Cheers!
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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What strain do you have in mind?

my usually 10 gallon cooler with a bazooka tube? ;) oh you mean yeast? lol premiere blanc wine yeast!

i looked up victory it says it can self convert? which would make me wonder what makes it different then 20L munich malt? i'll have to try dig up some info, but the maltsters are tighter lipped then us homebrewers!
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I'm finding conflicting information wrt lintner power. One site (Briess) says 0, another random home brewer site says enough to self-convert. (50=ish).
I'd go with Briess - they're actually maltsters, after all - and I think they may actually own the "victory" trademark? :D

Cheers!

i'll let this thread know...because i do plan on doing a 100% batch, i have alpha on hand incase my spiffy MA871 tells me my mash runoff is 0....but at 25L i think it'll be fine....to get 25L as long as it's not mashed in the kernel, and dry before toasting it, i make a munichish malt kilned at 200f for 12 hours or so, plenty power to self convert....even enough for 8lbs to convert 5lbs white flour.....

i gotta post a pic of my dream, or see if it's what i'm thinking at least. haven't looked at what color this will be yet in beersmith!

victorybeer.png


looks way darker then i want, but if the taste is there?


i got 40lbs coming, so maybe just 10lbs/10lbs pale? color looks better. but taste is what i'm looking for here....
 

day_trippr

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Right. Then I guess "vaya con Dios" is an appropriate response...

Cheers! ;)
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Right. Then I guess "vaya con Dios" is an appropriate response...

Cheers! ;)

i still plan on doing a 20lb 10 gallon batch with 100%.....because i think it will self convert! record needs to be set straight! so this is science not ....well...at any rate should know if victory will self convert after a week....another 4-5 days and i'll report if it's biscuity.....but like whole wheat biscuit! ;)
 

day_trippr

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I'm skeptical you can resist resorting to gluco-bombing whatever grain bill you come up with...

Cheers! (You have a history :D)
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I'm skeptical you can resist resorting to gluco-bombing whatever grain bill you come up with...

Cheers! (You have a history :D)

hey now, that malty beer was like d-day too! not a singal dextrin survived....but it was malty! maybe i should look more into maiard reactions...deglazing steak pans for sauce wouldn't work if the protiens didn't get water soluble?
 

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i like that, so just get a super thick mash...and not water it down? i'm not joking you got me thinking on that! so like a barley wine style brew, but i'm only shooting for 1.060? 🤔
....
I bet you in can do a second beer with that batch. Batch sparge the grain and extract a second running. I heard of breweries making a second weaker beer with the grain instead of sparging. Like a batch sparged new batch.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I bet you in can do a second beer with that batch. Batch sparge the grain and extract a second running. I heard of breweries making a second weaker beer with the grain instead of sparging. Like a batch sparged new batch.

hmm, so kombucha for work? sounds good!
 

day_trippr

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Partigyle brewing.
But, the "small beer" would be pretty darned small given the mere sixty point first runnings target.
Something smaller than a lawnmower beer (what's below that anyway? ;))

Cheers!
 
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bracconiere

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But, the "small beer" would be pretty darned small given the mere sixty point first runnings target.

i usually get 1.088 of 5 gallons first runnings, with that target though?
Something smaller than a lawnmower beer (what's below that anyway? ;))

you east coasters and always needing to bring up lawn triming beer! finally ordered 44lbs of hops so i can try one out!
 

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Look at recipes for Wee Heavy? Sounds sort of like what you’re after. Scottish Ale yeast will definitely leave something really malty. Sounds like you also don’t want much in the way of hops, maybe a BU:GU target of about .4 Using a Victory type roast as the majority of the grain bill would definitely be different, something I’ve never heard of. I have heard of people going up to 100% Munich. If you’re not sure about the enzymes of the Victory roast, you could cut it with some 6 row for added firepower. Maybe 80% of the Victory type roast and 20% 6 row ought to do it.
 
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Victory is biscuit-type. So are amber and brown malts. Amber/brown used to be diastatic. There are some big, bold Truman recipes on Shut Up About Barclay Perkins that call for heavy doses of 'high-dried malt'. Pattinson recommends Simpsons Imperial as a modern substitute, a diastatic amber.

@bracconiere on the right track

Here's a snip regarding the making of diastatic colored malt circa 1905.

 
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If you're making you're own malt, you must be kilning your own malt too. That's where your flavor is coming from. You are probably describing malt that has been kilned to a slightly higher degree (like biscuit vs munich vs vienna vs pilsen). Just kiln your malt a little longer and it will taste more malty
 
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bracconiere

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If you're making you're own malt, you must be kilning your own malt too. That's where your flavor is coming from. You are probably describing malt that has been kilned to a slightly higher degree (like biscuit vs munich vs vienna vs pilsen). Just kiln your malt a little longer and it will taste more malty


you could be right, in fact that's what shocked me about the 'malty' batch, was it was really malty but not a black beer like my usual 170f oven produced because it actually is 200-210f for 12 hours....but now i'm thinking, maybe now that i have my oven modded to go down LOW, i can kiln it at something like 150-160 for 12 hours, and then give it 15-20 minutes at 300? just kind of like toasting spices before grinding them 'until fragrant'.....


But i'm still going to try and mash a 100% victory, which i've been reading about, aprently just a trade marked biscuit malt....


they say it doesn't have diastatic power, but reading how it's made. i'm still not sure. because it sounds like it's just toasted pale malt, like munich? and i know when i kiln my munich at ~200f for 12 hours it still has plenty enough diastatic power to even convert a bunch of adjuncts, done it many times! so should be fun.

(just need to double check i still have that old bag of alpha, so i don't end up wasting $35 of malt! ;))
 

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Have you ever tried brewing with a commercial base malt like Golden Promise or Maris Otter?

Cheers!
That

My English Bitter came out very biscuity and has a subtle hint of chocolate pudding. I used Maris Otter, biscuit malt and English crystal. Then i cold steeped some chocolate malt and added to the boil. Love this beer.
 

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Watching this thread, I'm intrigued to see how it turns out. Best malty malty malty ale I ever made was based on a wee heavy recipe a few years back where I skimped too much on the hops, but used some peated malt to get that kinda smoky/peaty flavor out of it. Was sweet as heck but I like 'em that way.
 
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bracconiere

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Well i brewed yesterday, and as an experiment, i just used room temp water from the kitchen to sparge with.

i got crappy effec, kinda thought i would. only pulled 81% (or i ended up with 10 gallons of 1.059 from 20lbs malt) it smelled sweet and malty. but, i'll have to wait 3-4 days to get it in a keg.

just an experiment to see if a cold sparge will effect the taste in any way....
 
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thought i'd update, got the cold water sparge beer cold crashing for kegging tommorow...

and i got my victory malt a minute ago and couldn't resist trying it out in a test run....milled 9 ozs, tossed in some 120f water, 23ozs worth for a mash thickness of 1.3qt, warmed it up the rest of the way to 150f. let it sit for just 10-15 minutes checked it on the refrac and got a brix of 16....so i'm pretty sure it will self convert, or it's some sorta crystal malt that can just be steeped....either way going ahead with 100% victory tomorrow or day after.....should be interesting, the sample i took was dark like my 100% dark munich homemalt brews.....

edit: just added another quart of water to the nano mash, with another 8ozs of white flour, to see if the victory is just light crystal or actually has enzymes.....check it here 10 minutes to see the gravity....
 
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well, i wasn't thinking really clearly about my experiment....for some reason i expected the gravity to go up if it had enzymes, duh? but it stayed the same, then when i punched into beersmith, and anticipated for the extra quart of water i realized, that means it did convert.....

so i still got 16 brix, even after adding 8ozs white flour and another 23ozs of water.....i might be tempted to try this voctory out with flaked oats or something, to really go for the Grainola taste ;) :mug:
 
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That

My English Bitter came out very biscuity and has a subtle hint of chocolate pudding. I used Maris Otter, biscuit malt and English crystal. Then i cold steeped some chocolate malt and added to the boil. Love this beer.
I'd like to try brewing that, can you post your recipe?
 
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well, i'm brewing my victory beer now...19.5lbs victory malt, 2lbs4ozs white flour, 7gallons strike water, been mashing since 8:40am, it's 10:40 or so now, gravity still climbing, after 30 minutes it was only at 1.050 or so and i was worried, now 1.083 runnings test....so i think it is diastatic, but not like super power.....


i'm thinking i'll get somewhere around 82% effec.....but this is just a play by play....

(and the sparge is going to be a S.O.B.!)
 
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