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I used my IPA trub for my next batch of Red Ale

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Nubiwan

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I have probably done a few iffy contamination things here, but it was a risk I am willing to accept. Wanted to share for comments, and might have a question at the end.

I bottled off an IPA a couple of days ago, which I had dry hopped about 5 days with just a half ounce of Centennial for a little flavour bite. My next batch is a Red Ale.

I am just doing extracts here, so I had my Red Ale all ready to go. My 1.8 KG Red Ale malt extract warming in sink to loosen her up, a KG of medium dry malt extract (MDME?) and a litte extra glucose syrop. Had the syrop and DME all mixed in a pot and ready while I bottled my IPA.

My IPA was siphoned into a clean bottling pale, yada yada. Once done, I quickly rinsed the bottling pale and used it as the primary for my next read Ale. Added all my fermenatables, and cold water, and took my OG before pitching.

Here is the iffy potential contamination bit. I emptied most of the excess liquid from my IPA primary via the spigot on the pale, into the sink. I then scooped some of the trub from the bottom and pitched it into the new batch. I used a sanitized, flat spatula to do this. It was taking forever. I threw caution to the wind, and simply poured a fair bitt of the trub out of the pale directly into my red ale. My main concern us that I might have transported some of the scud from the old Krausen into the new batch. Therefore contaminant. Should I be concerned, and how might this manifest in taste/odor/clinical rejection on my new batch?

As a side note, I did much the same with a recent cider batch, which was made by simply pouring 5 gallons of Apple juice over the trub from the previous ale batch I made. The results from that test - so far - have been decent, but I am not really that familiar with ciders to know good from bad, and still rather acquiring the taste. Plus, its only been bottled 2-3 weeks, so still young. But there is no foulness to the taste at all. The scud from the beer krausen was still atop my cider while it fermented. I added enough apple juice to come below the "scud mark" :)

Anyway, I pitched my trub / yeast at around 2PM Friday, and ferment started around midnight in earnest. By the time the Raptors had knocked the Bucks out of the playoffs, she was steadily fermenting. Sunday, she was charging along in my blowoff with bubbles every 5 seconds, and my gravity has dropped about 20 points already in about 48 hours. Nice 2 inch krausen atop my primary. Looks, and sounds, healthy.

I tried this rather as an experiment to see how fast I can get the beer to fully ferment. I read a post about getting beer to bottle in 7-14 days, so I am seeing how fast this bulk yeast attack with get me FG to level out. MY SG was 1.054, and I am at 1.034 earlier today. Any ideas what my FG should likely be? Will it go down to 1.010 range? Should I expect it to bottem out pretty quick? DOes the vlume of yeast determine attenuation you might acheive? Guess I could search that

Any comments on process of just dumping my trub out of the pale straight into the new primary? I imagine a few people might be cringing at reading how I did that. I realize I also have the remnant of the cenennial hops to xconsider in the trub, but I am hoping that will just add a little zing to my ale. Was only an ounce. Perhaps this was another big No No.... but again, its an experiment, and I will report my results later in this thread.

 
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RPh_Guy

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My main concern us that I might have transported some of the scud from the old Krausen into the new batch. Therefore contaminant.
Just because it looks dirty doesn't mean it's more likely to be contaminated. Everything inside the carboy should be equally sanitary.

how might this manifest in taste/odor/clinical rejection on my new batch?
Contamination may present with overattenuation (slowly), sluggish fermentation, cloudiness or pellicle, unusual texture, or any unexpected flavor or aroma.

I read a post about getting beer to bottle in 7-14 days
Moderate gravity beers ferment in about 5-10 days without needing anything fancy.
For example, my most recent beer I bottled after 5 days. 1 packet of US-05 in 5 gallons of wort at 1.043, fermented at 66-68°F (19-20°C).
I bottled a kveik after 3 days.
Any ideas what my FG should likely be?
There are too many variables to accurately predict. Use your yeast's listed attenuation as a guideline.
DOes the vlume of yeast determine attenuation you might acheive?
Maybe a little, but it more depends on the overall health of the yeast, the particular yeast strain, and the amount of dextrins in the wort.
Any comments on process of just dumping my trub out of the pale straight into the new primary?
I'm not really a fan of repitching yeast, especially from trub. The yeast is stressed and contamination risk is somewhat high. The cost of yeast is low enough that I'd rather not take risk trying to save a little money.
Lots of people use this method though, so it's up to you.

Cheers
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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Thanks for that RPH. Kinda doing this as an experiment just to see how fast it does ferment. Probably not something I'd do often, but for a little variety. Going to have to move to BIAB soon I think. Tough to get the time.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Any comments on process of just dumping my trub out of the pale straight into the new primary?
I harvest yeast slurry from my fermenter with good luck. What I have been doing lately is to swirl the last bit of beer with the slurry and fill several sanitized jars out of the spigot. Scooping some out with a sanitized glass measuring cup seems like it would be a solid idea and easier than a spoon. With pouring, there seems like more risk of contamination around the rim of your fermenter, so you have to ensure that is clean and sanitized.
 

BrewInspector

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Nothing much to worry about here. I routinely collect yeast (trub and all) to pitch in later brews. No washing of the yeast.

A method often used is to simply add your new wort directly on top of the previous batches yeast / trub cake rather than scooping some out to put in a new fermenter. Nothing wrong with that either though.

I see little risk of contamination from the yeast transfer. Everything should already be sanitary as long as the new fermenter and spoon are clean all should be well.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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An update on original post. My Fermenation appears to have completed. I went from OG 1.054 to 1.015 in 5 days, which seems about OK. Bubbling went from 6 per minute at 8 AM to almost zero at 2:30 PM same day. Seems bizarre that it would halt so fast like that.

I also have a very cloudy Ale and I think that might be due, in large part, to the huge trub I added as my pitch. I am going to give it another 3-5 days to be sure the FG is steady.

Was thinking on adding some gelatin, but never done it before. Will it change the taste any? I might be able to (Prefer to) crash my pale in the garage at 45 or lower over next few days, as it is still friggin rubbish cold here.

A question: Does sediment stay floating / suspended while primary is fermenting. Does teh CO2 production keep it buoyant somehow? Should I expect it ti settle out now?
 

HiImBrian

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A method often used is to simply add your new wort directly on top of the previous batches yeast / trub cake rather than scooping some out to put in a new fermenter. Nothing wrong with that either though.
I know of a GABF medal winning brewery that does this all the time.

An update on original post. My Fermenation appears to have completed. I went from OG 1.054 to 1.015 in 5 days, which seems about OK. Bubbling went from 6 per minute at 8 AM to almost zero at 2:30 PM same day. Seems bizarre that it would halt so fast like that.

I also have a very cloudy Ale and I think that might be due, in large part, to the huge trub I added as my pitch. I am going to give it another 3-5 days to be sure the FG is steady.

Was thinking on adding some gelatin, but never done it before. Will it change the taste any? I might be able to (Prefer to) crash my pale in the garage at 45 or lower over next few days, as it is still friggin rubbish cold here.

A question: Does sediment stay floating / suspended while primary is fermenting. Does teh CO2 production keep it buoyant somehow? Should I expect it ti settle out now?
- Give it more time. I bet your FG will still drop a few points.
- Time and Temp will clear the beer up over time. Mix in a pack of unflavored gelatin with 3/4 cup of 155F water and toss it in the mix and move to the cool garage. That'll speed things up with regards to clarifying. I add gelatin to quite a few of my beers and no judges or friends have ever picked up on any off flavors from it.
- The sediment will drop with time, but there may be a few floaties remaining. No issue there.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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I know of a GABF medal winning brewery that does this all the time.



- Give it more time. I bet your FG will still drop a few points.
- Time and Temp will clear the beer up over time. Mix in a pack of unflavored gelatin with 3/4 cup of 155F water and toss it in the mix and move to the cool garage. That'll speed things up with regards to clarifying. I add gelatin to quite a few of my beers and no judges or friends have ever picked up on any off flavors from it.
- The sediment will drop with time, but there may be a few floaties remaining. No issue there.
You are correct oh swamy. I must have offed the pressure when I sampled for FG, via a spigot, because I came back later to find she's still bubbling away. Couple of times a minute in the blow off for the last few hours. So might settle off around 10-12 and give me a decent ABV in the mid to high 5s. Surely won't go any lower than 10...,. Will it? Theres enough yeast in this baby to open a bakery.

Have to say I am pleased at the progress made in just under a 6 days. Typically, if I just pitch dry yeast, you can have a 24-48 hour lull before fermentation really ramps up. Though it is faster when you activate the yeast before pitching. Using the trub ensures a fast start to fermentation?
 
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HiImBrian

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Yea I wouldn't expect less than 1.010. Also, for what it's worth, most professional breweries will let a beer ferment until they get the same gravity reading 2 days in a row. You don't wanna rush those little guys. I say give em a couple days to clean up any off flavors they may have left behind.

As for the yeast, I would always recommend hydrating or making a starter. Most of my fermentations get bubbling right around 18 hours or so. The trub is essentially a little starter and I'm sure you had far more yeast than necessary for the second batch. Let us know how things turn out.
 

BarleyStanding

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I have probably done a few iffy contamination things here, but it was a risk I am willing to accept. Wanted to share for comments, and might have a question at the end.

I bottled off an IPA a couple of days ago, which I had dry hopped about 5 days with just a half ounce of Centennial for a little flavour bite. My next batch is a Red Ale.

I am just doing extracts here, so I had my Red Ale all ready to go. My 1.8 KG Red Ale malt extract warming in sink to loosen her up, a KG of medium dry malt extract (MDME?) and a litte extra glucose syrop. Had the syrop and DME all mixed in a pot and ready while I bottled my IPA.

My IPA was siphoned into a clean bottling pale, yada yada. Once done, I quickly rinsed the bottling pale and used it as the primary for my next read Ale. Added all my fermenatables, and cold water, and took my OG before pitching.

Here is the iffy potential contamination bit. I emptied most of the excess liquid from my IPA primary via the spigot on the pale, into the sink. I then scooped some of the trub from the bottom and pitched it into the new batch. I used a sanitized, flat spatula to do this. It was taking forever. I threw caution to the wind, and simply poured a fair bitt of the trub out of the pale directly into my red ale. My main concern us that I might have transported some of the scud from the old Krausen into the new batch. Therefore contaminant. Should I be concerned, and how might this manifest in taste/odor/clinical rejection on my new batch?

As a side note, I did much the same with a recent cider batch, which was made by simply pouring 5 gallons of Apple juice over the trub from the previous ale batch I made. The results from that test - so far - have been decent, but I am not really that familiar with ciders to know good from bad, and still rather acquiring the taste. Plus, its only been bottled 2-3 weeks, so still young. But there is no foulness to the taste at all. The scud from the beer krausen was still atop my cider while it fermented. I added enough apple juice to come below the "scud mark" :)

Anyway, I pitched my trub / yeast at around 2PM Friday, and ferment started around midnight in earnest. By the time the Raptors had knocked the Bucks out of the playoffs, she was steadily fermenting. Sunday, she was charging along in my blowoff with bubbles every 5 seconds, and my gravity has dropped about 20 points already in about 48 hours. Nice 2 inch krausen atop my primary. Looks, and sounds, healthy.

I tried this rather as an experiment to see how fast I can get the beer to fully ferment. I read a post about getting beer to bottle in 7-14 days, so I am seeing how fast this bulk yeast attack with get me FG to level out. MY SG was 1.054, and I am at 1.034 earlier today. Any ideas what my FG should likely be? Will it go down to 1.010 range? Should I expect it to bottem out pretty quick? DOes the vlume of yeast determine attenuation you might acheive? Guess I could search that

Any comments on process of just dumping my trub out of the pale straight into the new primary? I imagine a few people might be cringing at reading how I did that. I realize I also have the remnant of the cenennial hops to xconsider in the trub, but I am hoping that will just add a little zing to my ale. Was only an ounce. Perhaps this was another big No No.... but again, its an experiment, and I will report my results later in this thread.

You'll get all sorts of opinions on this one. There are people that just chill the new wort right on top of a recently finished yeast cake, there are people that will only use fresh, packaged yeast, and there are a lot of methods in between. I think there is a sticky here on HBT on washing yeast. If there is a lot of hop crud in the trub, you would probably want to remove it before repitching; it might impart a vegetal flavor to the beer. Also, if I recall correctly, you want to be careful to pitch in an increasing SG direction, maybe someone can chime in. Meaning that you don't want to use slurry that came off a SG 1090 IPA into a SG 1056 pale ale. There is also a generational genetic-shift consideration in the yeast. I don't recall the specifics because I don't reuse slurry past 5 or 6 generations and I'm sure there are others that go far beyond this with great results, but you might take a look into it. I collect slurry and reuse when I don't think I'll come across a particular yeast stain again for a while. Other than that, I usually buy new yeast. Cheers!
 

seatazzz

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I reuse yeast slurry all the time, with great results, SG notwithstanding. I've re-pitched slurry from a hoppy lager (full of hop goo, I might add) into a Czech lager wort, and had no off flavors whatsoever. I've also re-pitched onto a proven yeast cake, again with good results. For the most part, once I've racked the finished beer into the keg or occasionally bottles, I'll add some distilled water to help get it liquified, and then decant into sanitized mason jars. Label, then refrigerate. On the next brewday, I'll take the SG into account and use either an entire jar, or half, depending on where the gravity is. My house ale yeast is Nottingham, and for lager I like S-23. I think the oldest yeast I ever used was almost 2 months old, and that beer turned out great. I generally will only go to 5 generations before starting fresh.
 

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Also, if I recall correctly, you want to be careful to pitch in an increasing SG direction, maybe someone can chime in. Meaning that you don't want to use slurry that came off a SG 1090 IPA into a SG 1056 pale ale.
Great point. From what I've learned from some of the local prof brewers in my area, you won't want to reuse yeast after a high SG brew period. So if you've got something that's 1080, I wouldn't recommend using it on your next brew even if it's 1090. The high SG just puts extra stress on the yeast.

Same goes for your point regarding hoppy beers. It's definitely possible to get some off flavors from the sludge remaining.

With all that said, it's also very possible to break all of the rules/advice and still make great beer. One of my biggest pet peeves with people on this board is when people claim with absolute certainty what will or will not happen.
 

BarleyStanding

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With all that said, it's also very possible to break all of the rules/advice and still make great beer. One of my biggest pet peeves with people on this board is when people claim with absolute certainty what will or will not happen.
Yes, I think I've seen all of the sacred brewing tenets I was indoctrinated with as a new brewer, skewered on HBT and in the local brewer community at one time or another. And they're making great beer! My take-away is that wort, yeast, and beer are a lot more forgiving than we presume them to be.
 
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Nubiwan

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If my Red has a slight zip from the 1/2 oz of centennial hop from my trub, then I might not care. Zingy red is ok by me.

Good chance I will package within a week. My personal; bottle stock it low. Shoule probably get another batch on.

I'll report back on getting this baby clear, and let you know how I make out. Still very cloudy. Ultra cloudy when I do my graity readings. Almost looks like bubbles in there. Tastes ok. Nice and bitter.
 

TurnipGreen

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I’m betting your samples are cloudy because you pulling from the bottom of the bottling bucket? I usually end up with clearer beers with a big pitch of fresh yeast.

If you pull another sample or when you go to bottle you might consider tilting the bucket back to pull less yeast and trub into you bottles.

It’s a lot of fun re-using yeast.
 

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Was thinking on adding some gelatin, but never done it before. Will it change the taste any? I might be able to (Prefer to) crash my pale in the garage at 45 or lower over next few days, as it is still friggin rubbish cold here.
I am still a total noob but I added gelatin per the instructions here https://spikebrewing.com/blogs/ask-a-pro/gelatin-finings to my first 5gal batch(and cold crashed for 3 days). I tasted it before and right after adding the gelatin and could not tell any difference in the taste. One thing I can say is that last weekend I bottled the clearest homebrew a (amber ale) that I have ever bottled. Please note: my previous brewing experience was a few 1gal mrbeer type kits years ago but I remember all of them being very hazy.
 
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Nubiwan

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Update from OP:

So my FG is indeed around 1.013

My sample from the spigot is very cloudy. Looks more like an aeration cloud to me, but hard to tell.

My temp is 62 degrees, and it's been that consistently.

I bought some gelatin, but it would not bloom at 62 degrees after 10 minutes or so. Is that too cold? Is my gelatin past it's best by date? Will gelatin be any use at my temp? I could maybe get the pale into a space 10-15 degrees cooler.

Should I rack to secondary? Not really wanting to move it personally.

Just let her sit another week or two?

Have to admit, I liked the winter, if only for my ability to naturally cold crash at around 40 degrees.
 

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If you can't cold crash, gelatin will be helpful at any temp (at the expense of slight O2 ingress), but it works better when the beer is colder. If you have a space 10-15 degrees cooler, use it. You can also use a fan and a wet towel/t-shirt wrap around the pail (not "pale") to chill it a little more. Good luck!

Re: gelatin blooming, I've never bothered. I just mix it thoroughly into very hot water (at least 170F or above to pasteurize), chill to beer temp, and pitch it in. I've even boiled it and it still works well.
 
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Nubiwan

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If you can't cold crash, gelatin will be helpful at any temp (at the expense of slight O2 ingress), but it works better when the beer is colder. If you have a space 10-15 degrees cooler, use it. You can also use a fan and a wet towel/t-shirt wrap around the pail (not "pale") to chill it a little more. Good luck!

Re: gelatin blooming, I've never bothered. I just mix it thoroughly into very hot water (at least 170F or above to pasteurize), chill to beer temp, and pitch it in. I've even boiled it and it still works well.
Pail - LOL. I havent had to spell pail since I was 5, and Jack and Jill went up the hill.
 
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Nubiwan

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I have been cold crashing in my porch were temps have been a reliable 40-45 degrees during winter months. Its taken a turn for the "better" here with weather, so those cold / frozen days are gone. So, I decided to re-arrange the "spare apartment" fridge content, to cold crash my Ale.

Its been in the crash maybe 16 hours when I took these pictures, so it'll be a record of how clear the cold crash might get your ale. My beer is ultra cloudy. It is the cloudiest beer I have made in all my batches since December (10). I'd have trouble reading a scale on a hydrometer through it, right now.

Anyway attached are some pics. The trub you see rather developed overnight. My beer is still cloudy all the same. The pail itself has actually cleared, but the sample through the spigot - as you can see - is London Fog. My temp in fridge is 30 degrees. Colder than my porch ever got.




 
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