I dry-fired my elements for the first time today

[Jayjay1976]

Even though only one of them shorted out internally, I'm looking to replace both elements since they were both dry fired. Brewhardware.com doesn't appear to stock the same long 1500W elements anymore so I'm looking for another source. These were excellent made in USA elements and never gave me any trouble until I forgot to shut them down before draining rinse water.

I'm so mad at myself right now I can't even think of anything else to type.

 

[passedpawn]

Even though only one of them shorted out internally, I'm looking to replace both elements since they were both dry fired. Brewhardware.com doesn't appear to stock the same long 1500W elements anymore so I'm looking for another source. These were excellent made in USA elements and never gave me any trouble until I forgot to shut them down before draining rinse water.

I'm so mad at myself right now I can't even think of anything else to type.

Of course, that is going to happen eventually. The important thing now is to accept the event and adapt so it's less painful next time.

I don't know what your elements or system look like, but consider installing the elements in a manner that makes them easy to replace. Those tri clamp elements are pretty sweet.

Also, I'd recommend the incoloy elements. They are not as shiney as the all SS elements, and I know we brewers love the bling, but the incoloy elements are much more tolerant of dry firing, especially the ULWD ones.

 

[bgmac]

Ouch, thanks for sharing. I usually don't hook up the power cord until the element is completely submerged. But I know I have hooked up the power a few times before dumping the water in the kettle.

Your mistake reminds me to submerge the element before plugin everything in. Sorry for your loss and thank you for your reminder.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Of course, that is going to happen eventually. The important thing now is to accept the event and adapt so it's less painful next time.

I don't know what your elements or system look like, but consider installing the elements in a manner that makes them easy to replace. Those tri clamp elements are pretty sweet.

Also, I'd recommend the incoloy elements. They are not as shiney as the all SS elements, and I know we brewers love the bling, but the incoloy elements are much more tolerant of dry firing, especially the ULWD ones.

Thanks for the feedback @passedpawn , I use hotpod weldless element enclosures which have been totally trouble-free for 3+ dozen batches. The elements I have (had) were USA made incoloy which are 100% worth the extra cost. Before installation I shined them up with BKF and some really fine 100μm lapping film, so they were easier to clean when I had a scorched batch. I'll give the new ones the same treatment even though it might be unnecessary.

With the aid of some distillate I've come to accept my own fallibility. I've also just ordered a pair of 5500W fold back elements from brewhardware.com. On my dual-120V setup they'll make ~1400W each which will be plenty for my 7 gallon batches, but with the additional element length they will be below ULWD with only 30W per square inch which is awesome. In hindsight, this was an excellent, if unplanned, upgrade. Best $75 mistake I've ever made. The element length and shape is even perfectly suited to my current 'crossed swords' installation setup. Upper element folds upward, lower element folds downward. Only potential problem may be false bottom clearance; I can replace the bolt legs with longer versions if necessary.

 

[daveMN]

Small world. I somehow destroyed my BIAB element tonight. Completely submerged, no idea what happened. Started to go from recirculating mash to boil, and noticed smoke coming out from around the mash cap. Raised the mash cap and the mash was boiling and smelled like I was pouring water on a bonfire. Then, the element stopped working. Suffice it to say both my element and Kolsch are "toast". The jar pics are my 15 min pH and the preboil. Element made it about 60 batches. Temp probe went out a month ago. Original Wilser bag is still going strong- it's indestructible!

 

[day_trippr]

holy cow!
What explains something like that happening?
My nitecap shall be dedicated to the short life of your crispy-style brew

 

[daveMN]

holy cow!
What explains something like that happening?
My nitecap shall be dedicated to the short life of your crispy-style brew

I haven't figured it out yet. Really weird. Need to think on it tonight. There's even some charring on the false bottom, which was also submerged.
An underwater fire. That's my best guess so far.

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks for the feedback @passedpawn , I use hotpod weldless element enclosures which have been totally trouble-free for 3+ dozen batches. The elements I have (had) were USA made incoloy which are 100% worth the extra cost. Before installation I shined them up with BKF and some really fine 100μm lapping film, so they were easier to clean when I had a scorched batch. I'll give the new ones the same treatment even though it might be unnecessary.

With the aid of some distillate I've come to accept my own fallibility. I've also just ordered a pair of 5500W fold back elements from brewhardware.com. On my dual-120V setup they'll make ~1400W each which will be plenty for my 7 gallon batches, but with the additional element length they will be below ULWD with only 30W per square inch which is awesome. In hindsight, this was an excellent, if unplanned, upgrade. Best $75 mistake I've ever made. The element length and shape is even perfectly suited to my current 'crossed swords' installation setup. Upper element folds upward, lower element folds downward. Only potential problem may be false bottom clearance; I can replace the bolt legs with longer versions if necessary.

Interestingly, I intentionally dry-fire my boil kettle element after most batches. I let it get cherry red, which instantly burns off any debris and leaves them perfectly clean. I've been doing that for a long time without any trouble. I use the Camco 5500W ripple elements.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Interestingly, I intentionally dry-fire my boil kettle element after most batches. I let it get cherry red, which instantly burns off any debris and leaves them perfectly clean. I've been doing that for a long time without any trouble. I use the Camco 5500W ripple elements.

Wow I can't believe your element survives that! Must have a lower watt density that dry firing won't destroy them. The ones I had were shorter; about 11" long and a single loop, they were only exposed for maybe 10 seconds when one of them popped the GFCI. It has crossed my mind a time or two to clean them by dry firing but I wasn't brave enough to try it.

On the bright side, I discovered quite a bit of gunk when I pulled them out. From now on I'll scrub all around the orings with a toothbrush. Actually since I'm not brewing for a few days I should tear down the whole system and get it really clean.

 

[passedpawn]

Wow I can't believe your element survives that! Must have a lower watt density that dry firing won't destroy them. The ones I had were shorter; about 11" long and a single loop, they were only exposed for maybe 10 seconds when one of them popped the GFCI. It has crossed my mind a time or two to clean them by dry firing but I wasn't brave enough to try it.

On the bright side, I discovered quite a bit of gunk when I pulled them out. From now on I'll scrub all around the orings with a toothbrush. Actually since I'm not brewing for a few days I should tear down the whole system and get it really clean.

I've posted this video about a zillion times here, so I guess one more time won't hurt. I dryfire it until I get thick green smoke, which I cannot see through. Then I do it again, this time I can see it, until it gets cherry red. Let cool, then rinse. I don't do it to the element in my HLT, but on occasion (like two weeks ago) I forget to turn the element off when pumping and it happens. Doesn't seem to have any negative effect. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[Bobby_M]

I like the 1650w elements a bit more than the 1500 as it's 10% more power with 60% more surface area.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I like the 1650w elements a bit more than the 1500 as it's 10% more power with 60% more surface area.

Do you run that on a 15A outlet or a 20A?

My setup plugs into two 15A outlets on separate circuits, don't know if I would be comfortable pulling 1650W through them for several hours at a time. My 1500's seemed more than adequate at 100% so 1400W might be all I need.

 

[Bobby_M]

1650 only pulls 13.75 amps and can run all day on a 15 amp circuit. In most houses, it wouldn't even pull 13.75 because a typical voltage is closer to 110 to 115v and power/current scales with input voltage on resistive loads.

 

[passedpawn]

1650 only pulls 13.75 amps and can run all day on a 15 amp circuit. In most houses, it wouldn't even pull 13.75 because a typical voltage is closer to 110 to 115v and power/current scales with input voltage on resistive loads.

I can't know what everyone else has, but I've always measured 120V at outlets in my homes.

 

[Jayjay1976]

1650 only pulls 13.75 amps and can run all day on a 15 amp circuit. In most houses, it wouldn't even pull 13.75 because a typical voltage is closer to 110 to 115v and power/current scales with input voltage on resistive loads.

Is it too late to modify my order? (#85194)

 

[Bobby_M]

I can't know what everyone else has, but I've always measured 120V at outlets in my homes.

I don't know what accounts for the variation exactly but I've measured 109v at my inlaw's place and I have 115v. It's probably distance to the transformer.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I was able to change my order before it shipped out so I upgraded to 1650W units, thanks to @Bobby_M for the excellent service.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for the feedback @passedpawn , I use hotpod weldless element enclosures which have been totally trouble-free for 3+ dozen batches. The elements I have (had) were USA made incoloy which are 100% worth the extra cost. Before installation I shined them up with BKF and some really fine 100μm lapping film, so they were easier to clean when I had a scorched batch. I'll give the new ones the same treatment even though it might be unnecessary.

With the aid of some distillate I've come to accept my own fallibility. I've also just ordered a pair of 5500W fold back elements from brewhardware.com. On my dual-120V setup they'll make ~1400W each which will be plenty for my 7 gallon batches, but with the additional element length they will be below ULWD with only 30W per square inch which is awesome. In hindsight, this was an excellent, if unplanned, upgrade. Best $75 mistake I've ever made. The element length and shape is even perfectly suited to my current 'crossed swords' installation setup. Upper element folds upward, lower element folds downward. Only potential problem may be false bottom clearance; I can replace the bolt legs with longer versions if necessary.

What you want is the largest element that will fit that meets your powwer needs for a lower TBI and watt density which will be a plus for you
The watt density is why some elements can be dry fired safely. the lower the watt density the easier it is to clean them without dry firing too... I set the max allowed output on my system to be 80% so my 4 5500w elements never get hot enough to bake on anything to the element surface and it all wipes off easiliy with a cloth.. at first I allowed all four elements in my 3bbl boil kettle to come on at 100% until temp was reached and the elements needed to be soaked or scrubbed.

voltage actually can fluctuate at different times depending on load on transformer.

 

[Jayjay1976]

These will be 40W/Sq in. so ULWD. I rarely had scorching with the two 1500W and they were 60W/Sq in. and they were always easy to clean with hot PBW. Besides, I'm pretty confident in @Bobby_M 's guidance.

 

[Dland]

Is there a incoloy 5500W ripple element w tri clamp mounting out there? Looks like most of them a screw in.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Is there a incoloy 5500W ripple element w tri clamp mounting out there? Looks like most of them a screw in.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/elementkit_tcrip_weld.htm

 

[Dland]

Thanks, but I think that is like the SS ones I already have. Was looking for the heavier duty incoloy ones passedpawn mentioned.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks, but I think that is like the SS ones I already have. Was looking for the heavier duty incoloy ones passedpawn mentioned.

someone should let SS brewtech know the difference between Incoloy stainless and regular stainless as well...
https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/ebrewing-rims?_pos=1&_sid=7fb2869c6&_ss=r

They have been falsely advertising these for months now.