I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago...

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Another "spin off" from one of the "flash brewing" threads.

Photographic documentation of this would be awesome

Example: visual of "hot break" (while heating)

Basic Brewing's Hop Sampler with hot break observation

Ingredients

• 1 gal water, 1# DME, hops, yeast.

Process

• heat water to 140F, add DME
• heat slowly (around 2F per minute) up to 200F, watching for hot break
  • see #79 for link to photo with 'foam' and 'hot break'
• bring wort to boil,
• add hops,
• chill
• ..

to me dme (spraymalt) is already hot broke and doesnt need to be boiled.

i think this is from briess:

"The fourth step is boiling. The sweet liquid, which is called "wort", is transferred to the brew kettle where it is boiled.
The fifth step is clarification, which involves transferring the wort to a large tank called a whirlpool that acts like a cyclone to settle out any solid material."

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/is-dme-pre-boiled.395630/

to me that sounds like hot break has been removed.

My experimental observations suggest that the presence/absence of hot break varies by brand, but not by type (LME/DME) or type.

---

eta: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are (often) not."

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Had an extra 3 lb bag of Briess sparkling amber DME, so I'm making an IPA out of it...

2.75 gal
og: 1057
ibu: 50
3 lbs amber dme
8 oz brown sugar
willamette @30 for 25 ibu
cascade @30 for 10 ibu
mandarina @15 for 15 ibu
us-05

update: dry-hopped with 0.5 oz mandarina for 6 days, then bottled. (Sample tasted delicious)
FG: 1.010

first taste update:
Chilled a bottle, and giving this beer a first real taste... Not bad. Not great. I think it's a little too bitter, and maybe the willamette hop is clashing with the others. Can't remember why I used that in the first place!

bottom of the first-glass update:
Actually, it's kind of growing on me!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

1st attempt at a Brown Ale that's just DME & roasted malts (mostly for color). Experimenting with a blend of "amber" and "dark" DME that should contribute munich malt & medium crystal malt flavors. Cold steeped some chocolate 350L to add color (and some additional flavors).

Brown Ale (DME blend)

• 1.25 gal (end of boil) OG 53, FG 12 (est); SRM 19 (est)
• 12 oz Muntons Extra Light; 6 oz Briess Amber, 4 oz Briess Traditional Dark, 2 oz Sugar
• 1.5 oz Briess Chocolate (350L)
• 7 g Magnum (16.5) @ 30; 7 g Liberty (4.1) & 7 g Perle (5.1) @ 5
• 0.5 g CaCl at flame-on; rehydrated Irish Moss @ 10; 1g yeast nutrient (in fermenter)
• US-05 "2nd generation" (1st generation was 1 g yeast in 4 cups OG 44 wort)

Process

• cold steep Chocolate malt in 16 oz water while heating remaining water to 200F;
• at 200F, remove water to rehydrate Irish Moss; add steeped wort, DME, & sugar to kettle.
• 35 min boil with hops and Irish Moss added at times mentioned above.
• transfer & aerate wort, pitch yeast and yeast nutrient.

Notes

• Bottled today; hydrometer sample was very clear (sorry, no picture) and tasted like a flat brown ale.
• "2nd generation" US-05 started to show active fermentation in a couple of hours.
  • I have a couple of Lallemand London sachets that I may try to "extend" by making starters.

Next step

• rebrew using the "hop sampler" (1 min boil) approach; use DRC (?) and C hops (?)
• (tentative) "no boil" (but pasteurize/boil malts/hops where necessary)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

After listening to Flash Brewing with Chris Graham [President of MoreBeer]– BeerSmith Podcast #309 this morning, I'm pressing the "pause" button on the "no boil" attempts.

Chris is an excellent guest (focus on what he says). If you're not a fan of BrewSmith podcast, focus on what Chris says and suffer through what you dislike - you will be rewarded.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

follow-up to ...

Brown Ale (DME blend)

... which was bottled a two weeks ago.

tl;dr? blending DME got the color right, but any malt forward flavors that I look for in a Brown Ale are, at best, weak. I generally prefer my brown ales malt forward (e.g. New Glarus Fat Squirrel (it's on their brew list for 2024), Lift Bridge Fireside Flannel, Bells Best Brown (local release this year)) - and this beer isn't that.

I'll likely continue with the base 'grain bill' to see if it works as a "hop sampler" / "1 min boil" for brown / black ales / IPAs.

• maybe cold steep some DRC, light chocolate (200L), Crystal Red, or roasted barley to get some roasted flavors.
• likely use aroma/flavor hops common to hoppy brown ales
• maybe add an oz of Chocolate 350 or di-bittered black malt as a base for black IPAs.

 

[Pehlman17]

Caution(s)
I have different "salts" additions for Briess DME and for Muntons DME. If you brew with Briess Amber DME, the above "salts" additions may result in a mineralized beer.

Do you mind expanding on this a bit? I’ve heard discussion of the sodium issue with Briess DME. I’m curious if anyone has ever confirmed this with a Ward Labs test or something similar. Do you have some general rules of thumb you’ve found for each brand (Muntons v. Briess)? I recall on another thread a while back someone suggesting Muntons was much more of a blank slate so to speak relative to Briess.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Do you mind expanding on this a bit?

Short answer: With Briess DME, if I'm adding 'flavor salts', I limit salt additions to 0.5 g / gal of either CaCl (for malt forward styles) or CaS04 (for hop forward styles). Currenlty, I don't brew with DME above about OG 70.

There's a "longer" answer that covers some of the other things you mentioned. I may reply later this week.

I’m curious if anyone has ever confirmed this with a Ward Labs test or something similar

Anyone?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The (slightly) longer answer:

Over the last decade (or so), there have been a couple of topics (across three forums) that include ppm values for various brands of DME.

• Briess LME/DME sodium content (AHA forum, 2012)
• Some ppm numbers from Briess (Beer Advocate forum, 2022)
• Muntons and Briess ppm numbers (Brewers Friend forum, 2022)

Please balance the above numbers with the reality that brewers are winning awards with with various brands of DME, perhaps taking advantage of the unique mineral content in each brand.

In the past, there have been a couple of topics on dosing beer 'in the glass' to 'dial in' the flavor salt additions. I've had good results doing that. I've also had good results with dosing individual bottles at packaging time.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Red IIPA (Flash Brewing Irish Red DME)

• 1.5 gal (end of boil); OG 84; FG ??; ABV: ??; IBUs: 75; SRM:??
• 3# Irish Red DME
• 7g Warrior @ 30; 14g Centennial @ 10 & @0; 14 g Cascade @ 0;
• 3.5ml "HopBite" when pitching yeast
• Nottingham yeast

Process

• add 1# DME to 1 gal water; measure SG (PPG) & observe color
• add 2# DME and 3/4 gal water
  • watch wort as it heats to boil; measure SG
• 35 min boil

Notes

• looks like the DME is 42 PPG
• FG was 17
  • it looks like the DME is 80% fermentable with Nottingham.
• for "HopBite" IBUs, I used
  • IBUs = ml / vol / .0533 (30 IBUs = 8 ml / 5 gal / .0533)
  • ml = IBUs * vol * .0533
• the FG sample suggests a relatively low mineral content from the source water (more like Muntons than Briess).
  • I could see "season to taste" (adding Cl, SO4, or Na) as an interesting "kit hack".
• I'll probably bottle this batch next weekend.

Over in the "Flash Brewing" topic (link) , I brewed half of the Irish Red kit as an Amber Ale (used Cascade & Centennial rather than Willamette; 2.25 gal batch to get a slight ABV boost). Using the PPG number, and measuring FG, it appears that I got 80% AA with the Flash Brewing yeast.

Note that this is a sample size of one.

eta: the 30 min boil was the easiest way to gather some of the measurements and observations. I don't see using a 30 min boil in future 'kit hacks'.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

(Blended) Short Boil Hop Sampler (Muntons DME)

• 1.5 gal (end of boil); OG 59; FG 15 (est); IBU 40 (est)
• 2# Muntons DME
• 7 g Chinook (12.4, 7 g CTZ (16.2), 7 g Nugget (16.0) @ 5
• Nottingham

Process

• add DME to 1.5 gal water
• 10 min boil

Notes

• FG (using a 'finishing' hydrometer) was 11.
• add 're-verify calibration' of FG measuring equipment to my 'to do' list.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Red IIPA (Flash Brewing Irish Red DME) - bottling day

• FG was ~ 17 (finishing hydrometer)
• AA (Nottingham) ~ 80% (but see my 're-verify calibration' note above)
• hydrometer sample hints at a relatively low level of minerals in the DME.
• ... so there may be opportunity to add brewing salts to enhance either malt flavors or hop flavors.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... an open (just 30 days) package of "Flash Brewing" yeast (FBDY100), a basement at 62F, an open fermenter, a rainy morning ...

Red IPA (20 min boil)

• 2.5 gal (end of boil); OG 64, FG 11 (est); IBU: 54 (est); SRM 17 (est)
• 3# Muntons Extra Light DME; 0.5# sugar
• 4 oz (each) Simpson DRC & light chocolate (200L)
• 1 oz Warrior (14.5) @ 15 & 1 oz Centennial (8.6) @ 5
• 0.25g NaCl, 1.0 g CaCl, 2.0g CaS04
• 1/2 sachet FBDY100

Process

• cold steep grains for 30 min while heating water to 160F
• add flavor salts, sugar, DME, and steeped wort
• 15 min boil
• pitched yeast with wort @ 68F; basement is (recently) 60F - 62F
• no fermentation temperature control

Notes

• Exploring the "lower bounds" for the yeast strain.
• With DME, I find that flavor salt additions are brand specific.
  • IMO, beers with Muntons DME seem to be 'better' with a small Na addition
  • I don't add Na when brewing with Briess DME

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

pitched yeast [Flash Brewing yeast, and Montons DME] with wort @ 68F; basement is (recently) 60F - 62F

Fermentation started overnight - at around 6am (roughly 18 hours after pitching yeast), there was a solid 1" of krausen on top of the wort. Basement temperature has been steady (~ 61F), with the wort at 64F.

I'll try to remember to post a tasting note in 4 to 5 weeks.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Some thoughts on customizing kits

In the comments of the recent "The Apartment Brewer" UT on Flash Brewing (link to video n this topic: Flash Brew MoreBeer), there were ideas on various kit 'hacks' / customizations. Many are similar to the four methods (link) for Coopers kits.

Perhaps it's time to make some invert sugar (inspired by The New West Coast IPA, #496)?

My (very early) attempts at adding minerals (I was using the hydrometer sample + some 'extra' beer) hinted that the DME is not high in mineral content. Continuing to speculate with a small sample size, perhaps adding 10ppm Na and 50 - 100 ppm Cl or S04 would make a difference.

 

[MaxStout]

My (very early) attempts at adding minerals (I was using the hydrometer sample + some 'extra' beer) hinted that the DME is not high in mineral content. Continuing to speculate with a small sample size, perhaps adding 10ppm Na and 50 - 100 ppm Cl or S04 would make a difference.

I've always suspected that maltsters make extract using the lowest common denominator of mash salts, since they have no control over what the end user will brew with it.

Perhaps some kettle additions will bring out more flavor.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

My (very early) attempts at adding minerals (I was using the hydrometer sample + some 'extra' beer) hinted that the DME is not high in mineral content. Continuing to speculate with a small sample size, perhaps adding 10ppm Na and 50 - 100 ppm Cl or S04 would make a difference.

For those following along, I was exBEERimenting (a little early a lot early) with adding flavor salts to hydrometer samples for the Red IIPA recipe (link).

The Red IIPA (OG 84) was a "stress test" for DME mineral content.

For me and my tastes, I currently don't brew with Briess or Muntons DME above OG 66 (IPA range). My guess is that it's either too much or too little Na.

A "carbonation test" /3/ bottle from the Red IIPA (which used "Flash Brewing Red Ale" DME) hints at a product that's neither "too much" nor "too little" at OG 85. I may add a side-by-side exBEERiment (IIPA - Muntons DME vs one of the lighter "Flash Brewing" DMEs) to my brewing backlog.

Perhaps some kettle additions will bring out more flavor.

Agreed.

IMO, the additons vary based on brand. Briess DME seems to require a "soft touch". Muntons DME /1/ seems to need a 'dash' of Na, then cautiously add Cl & S04 to get a Cl / S04 ratio appropriate for the beer style.

With a sample / product size of one for "Flash Brewing Red Ale" DME /2/, it seems like it is "in between" - no need for a 'dash' of Na.

---

/1/ Home Brew Ohio (HomeBrewTalk sponsor) stocks it at a reasonable price.

/2/ It's reasonable to anticipate that the various "Flash Brewing" DMEs have the same mineral profile. "Time will tell"

/3/ the carbonation test was successful. At OG 84, Tthe beer will 'condition' for a number of additional weeks.

 

[Pehlman17]

First sample of the latest batch. Jumping back into extract again lately. This is a DIPA. I’m super happy with the color, and it’s tastes really good so far as well.

Basic Recipe/Process:
3 Lbs Briess Pilsen DME dissolved in 3 gallons of distilled water.
Brought to 152F and steeped (“mashed”) 1 Lb Great Western California 2-row along with 1 tsp Gypsum and 1 tsp BSG powdered alpha-amylase enzyme for 20 minutes.
Discarded grains and brought to boil.
1/2 oz Simcoe at top of 60min boil.
Yeast nutrient and whirlfloc at 10min left.
At flameout added 3 more Lbs Pilsen DME and 11oz Dextrose dissolved in 1/2 gallon distilled water which brought the temp down to about 180F. Set the temp on my kettle (Anvil Foundry 6.5) to 170, and added the following hops:
1oz each Centennial and Amarillo and 1.5oz each of Simcoe and Cascade.
I let those steep for 20 minutes.
Then I added 1.5 gallons of distilled water I had previously frozen in large sanitized silicone ice cube treys. I stirred to melt which brought the temp down to about 72F. Let settle for about 10 minutes and racked to fermenter.
Tossed in a 1qt. SNS starter of WLP007 I had prepared the night before using a can of Propper Starter wort diluted with equal parts distilled water.
Dry hopped at yeast pitch with the following:
1oz each Simcoe Cryo and Amarillo Cryo, 1oz Simcoe T-90, and 1.5oz Cascade T-90.
Fermented at room temp (about 68F currently) under 10psi of pressure that I let build up naturally.
Fermentation was very active for about 48 hours Sunday and Monday, then was slowing significantly by yesterday, and today was all but finished and everything looked to be dropping out of suspension. Transferred off of the hops and yeast today to a purged keg and that’s the pic I attached. Gonna let it sit at room temp the rest of the day then move to the fridge for cold crashing. So far it already tastes great!
Initial refractometer reading was 16.9 Brix (1.069 OG) and a reading today was 6.6 Brix, which using alcohol correction on a few different calculators suggests somewhere around 1.010 FG. If anyone has a reliable calculator they prefer for this stuff please let me know. Anyway, thought I’d share. I really hope this turns out as good as it’s already tasting if not better once it’s cold, clear(er), and carbonated!