Curious if you have a preference for Williams Brewing malt extracts over Briess? Or is it too soon to tell, until you dial in your preferred brewing salts additions?
I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago...
- Thread starter Hoochin'Fool
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It's too soon to tell.
I'm mostly curious about the "style specific" malts (American Amber, American Red, American Rye, Nut Brown). 4 lb LME in 2.75 gal water is roughly 5% ABV and should typically yield 24 bottles.
For me, the pouches were easy to store in the fridge and easy to work with on brew day. Yes, the LME sinks immediately to the bottom of the kettle - but adding it at around 150F with the heat off prevented scorching and help ensure the wort wasn't stratified.
Currently, I am doing 30 minute boils. Using the "style specific" malts in "hop sampler (heat to boil)" recipes could lead to someshort and shoddy quick and quaffable results.
aside: there are people out there who are quietly brewing enjoyable beers with style specific LME. My contribution here is "saying the quiet part out loud".
I'm mostly curious about the "style specific" malts (American Amber, American Red, American Rye, Nut Brown). 4 lb LME in 2.75 gal water is roughly 5% ABV and should typically yield 24 bottles.
For me, the pouches were easy to store in the fridge and easy to work with on brew day. Yes, the LME sinks immediately to the bottom of the kettle - but adding it at around 150F with the heat off prevented scorching and help ensure the wort wasn't stratified.
Currently, I am doing 30 minute boils. Using the "style specific" malts in "hop sampler (heat to boil)" recipes could lead to some
aside: there are people out there who are quietly brewing enjoyable beers with style specific LME. My contribution here is "saying the quiet part out loud".
I haven't used LME in cans for many years and don't know if they have void (air) space. Your post makes me wonder if the cans have some air that you suspect may be causing oxidation. Do you think the pouches from Williams are better in that respect?
With my (single) failed batch of LME in 2022, the stale LME may have been the combination of 1) time (it had been packaged about 10 months), 2) (perhaps) warmer storage, and 3) 'head space' in containers.
Tentatively: yes. I'm still a little uncertain about ordering LME in the summer.
MoreBeer, at their LME landing page (link), certainly sees pouches as a competitive advantage.
Classic American Brown Ale (LME)
3rd of a series of classic American Ales (pale, amber, brown) using style specific LME.
/1/ Let's "poke the bear (aka ChatGPT 3.5). Humans can "do the math". Is the 'pattern matching' / statistical word generation of ChatGPT 3.5 able to keep up? If you are a bot, please report back
/2/ 3 for 3 with color coming out as expected when brewing LME.
edits: revised hop amounts to grams (rather than ounces)
3rd of a series of classic American Ales (pale, amber, brown) using style specific LME.
- 50 min boil
- 2.75 gal (end of boil), 2.5 gal into fermenter
- ABV 6.2% (est); OG 60; FG 13 (est); IBU ~ 50 (est)
- 4 lb Williams American Amber LME; ?? oz[ /1/ sugar
- 7
ozg each of Magnum (12.3) & Columbus (16.2) & Fuggle (4.7) @ 45 - 7
ozg Fuggle @ 30 & @ 15 - 14
ozg Chinook @ 0 - US-05
- heat 2.5 gal water to 140F, remove kettle from heat, add sugar & LME
- check color (it was brown /2/, not black)
- add water to get to 2.75 gal at end of boil
- heat to boil while doing my traditional "watch the wort as it heats" technique
- This is the last of the three part "experimental" series. Maybe more, late this year, over in I brewed a favorite recipe today.
/1/ Let's "poke the bear (aka ChatGPT 3.5). Humans can "do the math". Is the 'pattern matching' / statistical word generation of ChatGPT 3.5 able to keep up? If you are a bot, please report back
/2/ 3 for 3 with color coming out as expected when brewing LME.
edits: revised hop amounts to grams (rather than ounces)
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D.B.Moody
Well-Known Member
Those ounces of hops seem high.
LOL, grams, no doubt!
I corrected the recipe.Those ounces of hops seem high.
Basement is warming up slowly, currently around 62F. I split the batch between a Little BMB & a 2 gal pail. Both will sit at basement temperature (no fermentation temperature control). My plan it is to measure inside wort/beer temperature once a day over the next couple of days.
D.B.Moody
Well-Known Member
Glad you did, because I was afraid you were actually doing a not too hoppy west coast IPA, but I'd never seen Fuggle hops in one.
The American Amber Ale is at about 75% AA this morning. It was a half package (11 g) in a 2.75 gal wort - which looks like a slight under pitch using Lallemands pitch rate calculator).
I occasionally revisit supplier product information pages and went to the Verdant production information page (link) yesterday. There's a link to an IPA Solutions PDF (direct link) at the bottom of the page.
I occasionally revisit supplier product information pages and went to the Verdant production information page (link) yesterday. There's a link to an IPA Solutions PDF (direct link) at the bottom of the page.
- 12* P is SG 48
- 20* C is 68* F
- 100 g per hL is 1 gram per liter
- or roughly 10 g in a 2.75 gal wort
- 72 hours is 3 days, 120 is 5, 168 is 7
... and a recent topic (link to AHA forums) on pitch rates for Fermentis dry yeast.
Based on what happens when I ferment beer at 62 ambient, your temperature should rise to about 65 before falling back to 62. With the cool starting temp you don't get as much temperature rise as you would if your beer started fermenting at 70.
Am I the only one that thinks US-05 throws some odd fruity flavors when it's kept that cool (below 65F, I would say)?
It's commonly known that US-05 can leave peachy flavors when fermenting below 66F. In an IPA you may never find it, in a lighter hopped Pale Ale and other much lower hopped, more malt forward beers, such as an Amber, Blonde or Red, you might.
@Hoochin'Fool : a number of winters ago, I went looking for the "peach" off flavor that HomeBrewTalk talks about. I'm aware of a small number of 1st personal ancedotal reports - the best one described the flavor as 'bad hard candy imitation peach flavoring' - which I have experienced in hard candy 
).
That winter, when looking for "peach" from US-05, the basement went down to 55F. I didn't find those bad imitation peach flavors
.
Was it the recipe(s)? a change in how US-05 is packaged?
Also, people have varying degrees of sensitivity to flavors. With many flavors, one can train to recognize those flavors. But some people will always be "blind" to certain flavors.
I haven't fermented with US-05 for a while (currently using mostly Verdant, New England, Nottingham, and BRY-97). But I recently acquired some WLP001 and Apex San Diego Dry (via Williams Brewing) so there's probably a split batch sampling event in my future.
).That winter, when looking for "peach" from US-05, the basement went down to 55F. I didn't find those bad imitation peach flavors
.Was it the recipe(s)? a change in how US-05 is packaged?
Also, people have varying degrees of sensitivity to flavors. With many flavors, one can train to recognize those flavors. But some people will always be "blind" to certain flavors.I haven't fermented with US-05 for a while (currently using mostly Verdant, New England, Nottingham, and BRY-97). But I recently acquired some WLP001 and Apex San Diego Dry (via Williams Brewing) so there's probably a split batch sampling event in my future.
A couple of updates on current batches:
- Classic American Amber Ale (LME) [reply 74]: It's at estimated FG, so I intend to bottle this batch this weekend. I may do a "split bottle conditioning" trial : dose all the bottles with CBC-1; bottle condition a couple at ambient (61F at the moment) and the rest at 75F. When I bottle condition with CBC-1 @ 75F, the bottles have been carbonated in around 7 days. Conditioning this batch at different temperatures might offer some insights into the impact of bottle conditioning temperature.
- Classic American Brown Ale (LME) [reply 85]: (this was a 2.5 gal batch split into two 1.25 gal batches for fermentation, fermenting with US-05 at basement ambient with no temperature control): wort/beer temperature over the last couple of days has been ambient ~(61F) + 1F. So this batch will likely ferment "low & slow" over the next couple of weeks.
Big Braggot Citra Hop Steep
Next to the last recipe in a series of experimental beers using DME in worts above about OG 65 /2/.
This is a variation on my "Citra Hop Steep" recipe that I occasionally brew.
/1/ 5 g is a big pitch; but I have little experience with this wort composition.
/2/ In the past, I haven't been able to make higher OG "all extract" beers that I enjoy. I have a good idea as to what the problem(s) might be. The recipes are attempts to avoid/evade those problems(s) without creating new ones.
Next to the last recipe in a series of experimental beers using DME in worts above about OG 65 /2/.
This is a variation on my "Citra Hop Steep" recipe that I occasionally brew.
- 20 min "hop stand" starting at 175F, then "no chill"
- 1.20 gal into the fermenter
- ABV 8.4% (est); OG 73; FG 9 (est); IBU:
- 1.25 gal water; 0.25 g CaCl
- 1 lb Briess Pale Ale DME; honey/sugar to get to OG 73
- 28 g Magnum (12.3), 28 g cryo Citra (AA 25% ); 14 g Citra (12.5%)
- 5 g Lallemand New England yeast /1/
- heat water to 175F; add ingredients; heat wort to 175F
- hold wort above 170F for 20 minutes
- chill (I used "no chill" to about 90F, then moved to fermentation chamber)
- fast bottle condition (75F with CBC-1 & ascorbic acid)
- braggot is made using honey (usually > 30%) and malts
- hydrometer sample was delightfully citrusy.
/1/ 5 g is a big pitch; but I have little experience with this wort composition.
/2/ In the past, I haven't been able to make higher OG "all extract" beers that I enjoy. I have a good idea as to what the problem(s) might be. The recipes are attempts to avoid/evade those problems(s) without creating new ones.
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@BrewnWKopperKat Hops still provide bittering at 175F, don't they? I'm not even sure how to enter that into brew software... "20 minute hop stand"?
They do. (More on estimation attempts below).
The hop additions were done "by feel" (or maybe just a SWAG) based on previous BBR "Hop Sampler" and "hop steep" batches:
- With "Hop Sampler" (5%-ish ABV) batches, I get good results with 28 g of hops as long as the AAs are above 10. Cascasdes at 6 AA didn't work for me.
- So I tried some combinations of "Hop Sampler" with Magnum for bittering. An additional 7 g of Magnum seemed to help.
- With the "hop steep" batches (again in the 5%-ish ABV range), 28 g tended to have the flavors that I was looking for (but not enough bitterness).
- Along the way, I learned the noticeable difference between steeping at 185F and at 175F.
- I started with an 25 g of cryo Citra
- added 14 g of Citra (some claim that regular Citra pairs well with cryo Citra)
- then added some Magnum for some additional bitterness.
Using (abusing?) the data in the BeerSmith article, I get "60". Which, when thinking about how the hydrometer sample tasted, feels somewhere between possible and a little low.
The "Alchemy Overlord" site WordPress (link) and GitHub (link, includes calculators!) sites, with the SPMH model (link to free BYO article) deserves a mention here. Perhaps pair it with The New IPA for a deep dive into hop oils.
BeerSmith blog (link) offers this table for adjusting utilization:
If I apply that adjustment to the Tinseth model, I get 300 IBUs (20 min boil) * 20% (my steep went from 175 to 170 over 20 minutes), or about 60 IBUs. For a 20 min boil, the estimated IBUs were around 300 - so I suspect there's an "overflow" in the ad-hoc model.
(X axis is temperature: 100 to 225; Y is utilization: 0 to 120)
Now I get why you had for your IBU's! Thanks for the beersmith chart, seems like as good a starting point as any.
for your IBU's! Thanks for the beersmith chart, seems like as good a starting point as any.
... closing comments for a couple of recent recipes.
Fermentation finished in about 5 days. Bottled on day 7 using fast bottle conditioning technique. Test bottle (after 3 days bottle conditioning) was ready (and showing signs of oxidation). Probably will order PET bottles (zero head space, no worries about bottles cracking, etc) for my next small batch hazy.
After about a week, bumped fermentation temperature to 67F so I could package this batch this weekend. Today's hydrometer sample was "as expected" (no signs of peachy flavors).
... final follow up on the "Classic ... Ale (LME)" series
Over the next six to nine months, my goal is to "dial in" a number of BIAB recipes (e.g. SNPA, 2H, ...). Along the way, I may try to brew a DME-based double IPA that I enjoy.
Bottled this batch a couple of days ago using sugar, CBC-1, & ascorbic acid; using the (highly experimental) "fast bottle conditioning" process (75F water bath for 5-7 days) that I've mentioned on occasion. This process seems to be working well for bottles that are intended to be consumed fresh. However, given what I mentioned in #101 and (this link), I don't see it as valid approach for bottling hazies.
Over the next six to nine months, my goal is to "dial in" a number of BIAB recipes (e.g. SNPA, 2H, ...). Along the way, I may try to brew a DME-based double IPA that I enjoy.
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@BrewnWKopperKat A recent batch I made turned out to have a few mild gushers, and I'm leaning towards just adding sugar to each bottle for next time. Am I correct in thinking it looks like 2.3 grams table sugar (per 12 oz bottle, beer at 70F, aiming for 2.5 atmospheres CO2) is the proper dose?
Your few gushers suggest that your priming sugar didn't get mixed well. Use a big spoon and stir the beer and priming solution. Do it slowly so as to not add extra oxygen.
That looks reasonable.
When I switched from carbonation drops to sugar (wanted more precise control over carbonation level), I worked with a priming calculator (adjusting batch size to match the contents of the bottle (may not be 12oz)) and ended up in the 2.3 g per bottle range for that level of carbonation.
Looks good. Here is a simple table that I put together for bottle priming. It is based on the 1 gallon values from the Northern Brewer calculator and then scaled to other bottle sizes. There are small variances in the sugar amounts from different calculators, but the Northern Brewer values have worked well enough for me.
Is that atmospheres CO2 across the top? Must be... [edit: not quite, see next post below this!]
I went ahead and bottled an amber ale (all grain) Wed nite, dosing the bottles individually with table sugar using a funnel and a slightly rounded half-teaspoon of sugar. Between sugar crystals sticking to the spoon and inside the funnel, I have LESS confidence than I did in adding sugar solution to the bottling bucket.
I went ahead and bottled an amber ale (all grain) Wed nite, dosing the bottles individually with table sugar using a funnel and a slightly rounded half-teaspoon of sugar. Between sugar crystals sticking to the spoon and inside the funnel, I have LESS confidence than I did in adding sugar solution to the bottling bucket.
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Volumes of CO2
"The amount of carbon dioxide dissolved into a beer is measured in units called “volumes of CO2.” This gets a little technical, but a “volume” is the space that the CO2 would take up at a standard temperature (32° F) and pressure (one atmosphere) if removed from the beer. In other words, if one gallon of beer contained two volumes of CO2, the CO2 by itself would occupy twice the space the beer takes up, or two gallons."
Beer Fact Friday: Volumes of CO2 | Four Peaks Brewing Co.
Carbon dioxide—the gas that gives beer its bubbly texture—dissolves readily in beer. Certain factors can affect how easily CO2 dissolves: The colder the beer, the more gas that will be absorbed into the liquid. The warmer it is, the less gas that will be dissolved. Pressure is also a factor...
www.fourpeaks.com
Assuming one is willing to dose individual bottles (... hey where did everyone go?
) in smaller batches, another option is a small scale (0.01 g accuracy) and mini-cupcake liners. The liners have a pleasing consistent weight, so when one "tares" heavier, replace it. I measure/dose/cap in groups of three or four.Similar threads
