I am an idiot

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Just-a-Guy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
135
Reaction score
3
Location
ny
So... yeah. Second time I've done this. Total moron.

I was brewing up an extract kit of wheat beer, and I added about a pound of wheat DME (Muntons) after steeping in 1/2 lb of wheat grains (not in the kit, I added both). Boiled for 40 mins, etc. Then was read to move to the FV... and after cooling with the wort chiller (206 to mid-70's in less than 15 mins), I realized I forgot to add the stupid hop pellets. So I dumped them in the FV, then poured the chilled word on top of it all. Then pitched and closed up.

What will be the impact of no hop pellets until after chilling, and tossing in the pellets at the end? Anything?

Stupid is me!!!!
 
Are you saying you didn't put any hops in the boil? And why are you only boiling for 40 minutes?
 
Are you saying you didn't put any hops in the boil? And why are you only boiling for 40 minutes?

Yes, no hops into the boil. (Like I said, idiot.)

The kit instructions said boil 20-30 mins. I actually boiled close to an hour, adding first the DME, then one can of LME (wheat) then another can, along the way.

But yeah, no hops in the boil.

:(

Edit: I actually boiled the water first then steeped the grains (not included in the kit) for 30 mins, then boiled again, then added the DME, then started the timing. FWIW.
 
Ok, your beer is not going to get any IBU's from just throwing in the pellets after you boil. For the record you need to boil the bittering hops for 60 minutes to get proper bittering. That does not include flavor and aroma hops. This batch isn't going to work out for you. If it was me I would boil the entire batch for 60 mins again (hops and all), which will kill the yeast. Then after cooling it you could throw it back into the fermentor and top it back up to 5 gallons with bottled water and then pitch any ale yeast you might have or can get your hands on..
 
Thanks, Stauffbier. I appreciate the help.

So...is it basically that without boiling hops in the wort, beer doesn't work? It's obviously a huge pain to re-boil the entire thing. I'd almost rather toss it and start over. Just wondering what actually happens when you don't boil hops in the boil...?
 
Time to take a step back and read some more on this forum, but I agree with Stauffbier in trying to salvage this batch and get some bitterness in there.

Since this has happened twice, it seems like it is time for a better brew day procedure. I like to lay out all my ingredients in bowls with little notes under them for when they should be added. I put them left to right so the things that go in first are on the left and the last additions are on the right. This way, you should be able to work your way through the boil and not miss anything. I also would recommend taking notes during the brew day. I think forcing yourself to jot down time of additions/amounts/etc. will help you remember everything.

Most of all... RDWHAHB
 
Thanks, Stauffbier. I appreciate the help.

So...is it basically that without boiling hops in the wort, beer doesn't work? It's obviously a huge pain to re-boil the entire thing. I'd almost rather toss it and start over. Just wondering what actually happens when you don't boil hops in the boil...?

If you don't boil the bittering hops for 60 minutes you don't extract the proper acids and oils from the hops that help to give beer it's bitter taste. Without the bittering hops your beer will taste very malty and sweet. It won't taste anything like beer without the bittering hops. It will taste more like a malty/molasses type flavor.. If it was me I wouldn't toss it. It can likely be saved. You could possibly even boil hops in water for an hour and make a "hop tea" that you can stir into your wort, but do it asap!
 
Guy, you aren't going to have any bitterness to balance the malt, it would be difficult to drink in quantity.

You could (and I've never done this) boil your hops in a couple cups of water, strain out the hops and dump the hops infused cooled liquid into your fermenter.

Just a thought.
 
Well...I already dumped the hop pellets into the FV (cold). So I don't even have any hops to put into it. I have some Cascade whole leaf hops in the freezer, but I'm guessing that's not the right kind of hops for this, even assuming a late-added "hop tea" might work. I think I'll dump the damn thing and start over tomorrow.

And yeah, it's time to develop some better methods. This is ridiculous. It's not even so much the money, but the time and effort. Sheesh.

Thanks, guys. Appreciate the honest help.
 
Well...I already dumped the hop pellets into the FV (cold). So I don't even have any hops to put into it. I have some Cascade whole leaf hops in the freezer, but I'm guessing that's not the right kind of hops for this, even assuming a late-added "hop tea" might work. I think I'll dump the damn thing and start over tomorrow.

And yeah, it's time to develop some better methods. This is ridiculous. It's not even so much the money, but the time and effort. Sheesh.

Thanks, guys. Appreciate the honest help.

Hell I'd use the Cascades! Dumping a batch is a mortal sin! haha. But seriously.. You could also try scooping out the hops from the fermentor if it's a bucket. Then use them to boil up a hop tea.
 
Yes, you are an idiot. Ive done some dumb crap whilst brewing, but ive never not added hops. Just learn from your mistake...
 
Also, I would recommend that you quit trying to experiment. Just order a plain old extract kit with some steeping grains and stick to the instructions for brewing. Midwest sells a decent instructional DVD that can help push you in the right direction for starting this hobby. Once you get the process down, then start experimenting with other ingredients...
 
Stauffbier said:
Ok, your beer is not going to get any IBU's from just throwing in the pellets after you boil. For the record you need to boil the bittering hops for 60 minutes to get proper bittering. That does not include flavor and aroma hops. This batch isn't going to work out for you. If it was me I would boil the entire batch for 60 mins again (hops and all), which will kill the yeast. Then after cooling it you could throw it back into the fermentor and top it back up to 5 gallons with bottled water and then pitch any ale yeast you might have or can get your hands on..

Oh man don't dump it. You'll waste everything. Just reboil, you've got nothing to loose. Or, hop tea, then you'll have your pellets that are in there acting like a dry hop and then you can at your bittering tea. If it were mine, I'd reboil.
 
Also...did I read correctly that you boiled the steeping grains? I can't tell the way you wrote it. If you did, you shouldn't do that any more. Steeping grains should be done at a temp of ~150°F. Also, steeping wheat by itself is just going to add a bunch of wheat starch to your beer. You'll probably have a very cloudy beer because of this.

I think it is time to step back a bit and read (or re-read) up on some basics - http://www.HowToBrew.com
 
Cascade might work... Whole leaf vs. pellets really wouldn't matter too much. Only 1lb of wheat DME? This must be a pretty small batch? Maybe posting the whole recipe might help us figure out how much of the whole leaf you would need to boil.

Also, with the steeping grains, you should only steep in H2O around 155 degrees for about 20-30 minutes rather than adding them to boiling water.
 
It is way too easy to forget what you are doing. Everyone should have a Beer Log / Checklist to follow on brew day. Without it, you risk leaving out an essential step and ruining all your time and effort.
 
IF:

1) He didn't boil the grain
2) the "can of wheat LME" is a kit (that's pre-hopped)

He can ferment it and have a very low IBU beer. The pre-hopped can could impart just enough bitterness to make it work.

BTW, you're not an idiot. You're a noob. ;)

MC

I was also wondering if maybe the kit used pre-hopped extract. I believe he added the wheat LME to a kit. OP, can you post the recipe from the kit, tell us what you added, and tell us if you boiled or steeped the grain?
 
IF:

1) He didn't boil the grain
2) the "can of wheat LME" is a kit (that's pre-hopped)

He can ferment it and have a very low IBU beer. The pre-hopped can could impart just enough bitterness to make it work.

BTW, you're not an idiot. You're a noob. ;)

MC

Oh yeah... Good point. Very well could have been a pre-hopped can which would make things much better!
 
OK... So I scooped the hop pellet mess back out of the fermenter as best I could. Put it in a pot with a half-gallon of spring water, and added about 1/2 oz of Cascade leafs. It's boiling now.

I'm assuming I should boil this for a while, then screen out the solids, then chill it (wort chiller in small pot), then pour it gently into the FV, then stir gently.

Is that about right?
 
OK... So I scooped the hop pellet mess back out of the fermenter as best I could. Put it in a pot with a half-gallon of spring water, and added about 1/2 oz of Cascade leafs. It's boiling now.

I'm assuming I should boil this for a while, then screen out the solids, then chill it (wort chiller in small pot), then pour it gently into the FV, then stir gently.

Is that about right?

At this point, that sounds like a solid plan. Boil it for 60 mins. Run with it and tell us how it comes out.
 
Thanks for the help, guys....

There were two cans (3.3) of unhopped wheat LME, and one 1 oz packet of UK First Gold hop pellets. That was basically the kit.

I didn't boil the grains. I boiled the water, let it cool briefly, then put the grains in, in a muslin bag. Steeped for 30 mins.

And yeah, this was just me being stupid again, experimenting. I've screwed up more than I've succeeded, due to my "experimenting." Sheesh.
 
At this point, that sounds like a solid plan. Boil it for 60 mins. Run with it and tell us how it comes out.

Thanks. Should I just dump the rest of the 1 oz package of Cascade whole leaf hops into the fermenter?
 
Thanks. Should I just dump the rest of the 1 oz package of Cascade whole leaf hops into the fermenter?

No! Just use the hop tea. I bet it will work fine. You never know, it might turn out to be really good beer! While you're boiling the hops in water you might lose a lot to boil off since it's a small amount of water. You can add a tiny bit of water a few times during the boil to keep the volume the same. Just don't add so much water that the boil stops. Maybe just a couple tsp every 10 or 15 mins... This way you won't end up with half a cup of hop sludge after boil off..
 
No! Just use the hop tea. I bet it will work fine. You never know, it might turn out to be really good beer! While you're boiling the hops in water you might lose a lot to boil off since it's a small amount of water. You can add a tiny bit of water a few times during the boil to keep the volume the same. Just don't add so much water that the boil stops. Maybe just a couple tsp every 10 or 15 mins... This way you won't end up with half a cup of hop sludge after boil off..


Got it. Boiling now. Will be adding small amounts of water as advised.

Thanks!
 
Its ok man! All us noobs make mistakes! You sound like me! Screw dipping my toes, im goin head first! Ha id dry hop the cascades! Cant hurt!
 
Just for the record -- it's morning now, and I'm still an idiot.

Don't beat yourself up. We've all made mistakes in this hobby. When I first started I would store LME in a warm pantry for 3 or 4 weeks not knowing that the stuff should be kept cool and used as soon as possible. I got some funky tasting beers as a result of that. That was just one of many different things I did wrong. It's how we learn. The best thing you can do is read as much as you can about homebrewing. Watch a bunch of youtube videos about it as well. Lastly, write down any question you can think of and run it through the search on this forum. In a few months you'll be making great beer and looking back on this and laughing about it... :mug:
 
To the op: there are up to 3 hops additions. The first is generally 60 minutes and extracts alpha acids that contribute bitterness to the beer. The second is 10-20 minutes and contributes hops flavor. The third is 0-10 minutes and contributes aroma. The hops contain oils that the boil extracts from them. By putting hops in without the 60 minute boil the bitterness will not be extracted. Eessentially you added all aroma hops. By putting the wort back into the boil with the hops still in it you extract the bitterness that you expect in a beer. I find it easier to remember things if I understand the reasons. That's why I read How to Breqw several times before my first batch. I'm still a noob too, just one with 12 batches in my tummy.
 
To the op: there are up to 3 hops additions. The first is generally 60 minutes and extracts alpha acids that contribute bitterness to the beer. The second is 10-20 minutes and contributes hops flavor. The third is 0-10 minutes and contributes aroma. The hops contain oils that the boil extracts from them. By putting hops in without the 60 minute boil the bitterness will not be extracted. Eessentially you added all aroma hops. By putting the wort back into the boil with the hops still in it you extract the bitterness that you expect in a beer. I find it easier to remember things if I understand the reasons. That's why I read How to Breqw several times before my first batch. I'm still a noob too, just one with 12 batches in my tummy.

Sorry if I'm being a bit of an a$$ here, but just wanted to clarify a few things. First, there can be any number of hop additions - not just three. Your point is accurate enough though - some additions are mainly for bittering, others for flavor, and still others for aroma.

Second, all additions (except perhaps dry hops) will add bitterness - the longer the hops boil however, the more bitterness you get. This is not really from increased extraction of the alpha acids, but from the increased isomerization of the alpha acids (basically, boiling causes a rearrangement of the molecular structure of the alpha acids). The isomerized alpha acids are more soluble in the wort, so they provide more bitterness to the finished beer. Longer boil = more isomerization = more solubility = more bitterness in the beer.

Lastly...as mentioned, the hop flavor and aroma come from other compounds/oils in the hops. These are extracted at all additions, not just the late ones, but they are also quite volatile so the longer they are in the boil, the more they vaporize and are lost from the beer. By throwing hops in later in the boil, less of these compounds boil off and more are retained in the wort. Basically, all that great aroma you get when you throw the hops in the boil are volatilized flavor/aroma compounds being lost out of your beer - if you can smell them, they are no longer in the wort.

Sorry, just felt the need to add some details :mug:
 
Back
Top