I’m looking for recommendations for a controller.

[cyoung1833]

I have a 240 30A outlet. I have a 3v herms system that I put together from my Unibrau AIO system. I added a couple Spike tanks for MT and HLT. I am willing to use a single element controller while switching the cord but would prefer not to have to swap out the cord. I like the price of the single element controllers though. Anyone have experience with single element and 2 element controller with a 3v system that could share their thoughts?

 

[doug293cz]

Are you looking to build or buy?

Brew on

 

[cyoung1833]

Prefer to buy.

 

[Bobby_M]

The auber brew buddy 1 is more than twice the price of the auber cube and essentially you gain the element selection switch to avoid cord changes. The next cheapest would be two blichmann brew commanders where you try really hard not to enable both elements simultaneously.

No one seems to have a relatively simple single brain controller with an element selector switch. The cheapest way to do it is to run one of the hots to two different SSRs and have the selector switch select which one gets the 12 VDC signal from the brain. Sure, there's a very small chance of an SSR failure that could energize both elements at the same time but the 30A breaker would trip. You do lose the ability to have a temp probe in the boil kettle which is pretty useful, but pros and cons eh?

 

[UdonPete]

I have a 240 30A outlet. I have a 3v herms system that I put together from my Unibrau AIO system. I added a couple Spike tanks for MT and HLT. I am willing to use a single element controller while switching the cord but would prefer not to have to swap out the cord. I like the price of the single element controllers though. Anyone have experience with single element and 2 element controller with a 3v system that could share their thoughts?

I use one of these and have to say it works perfectly : https://www.kegland.com.au/products/rapt-temperature-controller-standard-10amp-socket

 

[doug293cz]

I use one of these and have to say it works perfectly : https://www.kegland.com.au/products/rapt-temperature-controller-standard-10amp-socket

10A @ 240V allows a max element power of less than 2400W, and you should derate to no more than 2200W, and 2000W max would be even better. Many electric brewing systems have elements that are more than 2200W, so this controller would not work for those.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I use one of these and have to say it works perfectly : https://www.kegland.com.au/products/rapt-temperature-controller-standard-10amp-socket

I should also note that this is an ON/OFF controller, which is not ideal for mash temp control, and pretty much useless for boil power control.

Brew on

 

[UdonPete]

I use this controller not to boil – always use propane for the heavy heating - but for the element in a RIMS tube for (example) maintaining mash temp and then a ramp up for mash out - also (if needed) after the boil to maintaining a hopstand temp
I have a 2500w Ultra Low Density element and that together with the PID* function works perfectly – sorry no idea what you mean by On/Off

*If not sure what PID means : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional–integral–derivative_controller

 

[doug293cz]

I use this controller not to boil – always use propane for the heavy heating - but for the element in a RIMS tube for (example) maintaining mash temp and then a ramp up for mash out - also (if needed) after the boil to maintaining a hopstand temp
I have a 2500w Ultra Low Density element and that together with the PID* function works perfectly – sorry no idea what you mean by On/Off

*If not sure what PID means : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional–integral–derivative_controller

Your 2500W element is an overload vs. the max specified load of 2400W. This is likely to shorten the device's service life, especially if the power switches are mechanical relays vs. solid state relays (SSRs.) Mechanical relays are not recommended for rapid power switching. Unfortunately, the documentation I have looked at does not state whether mechanical relays or SSRs are used.

I was initially unaware that the Kegland controller had a PID mode, but after reading more documentation, it does have that mode. Unfortunately, the minimum Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) cycle time is 30 seconds. Most PID controllers that work with SSR switches have minimum cycle times of 1 - 2 seconds. This long minimum cycle time leads me to believe that the controller uses mechanical power relays rather than SSRs.

The 30 second min cycle time means that at 50% power your element will be on at max power for 15 seconds. This could be a problem in a RIMS application, where overheating and scorching of the wort is a risk when the element is on for a long time at full power.

PWM power control is actually full on and off switching. So that when the controller is calling for 50% power, the element is at 100% power for 50% of the cycle time and 0% for 50% of the cycle time. With a 30 second cycle time you would be at 100% power for 15 seconds. With a 1 second cycle time you would only be at full power for 0.5 seconds. The max element surface temperature will be much higher with the longer cycle time. Not a big deal for an HLT, but a potential disaster in a RIMS.

This controller is suitable for fermentation temperature control, or HLT temp control, but I would recommend against using it for RIMS control or boil control.

Brew on

 

[UdonPete]

Your 2500W element is an overload vs. the max specified load of 2400W. This is likely to shorten the device's service life, especially if the power switches are mechanical relays vs. solid state relays (SSRs.) Mechanical relays are not recommended for rapid power switching. Unfortunately, the documentation I have looked at does not state whether mechanical relays or SSRs are used.

I was initially unaware that the Kegland controller had a PID mode, but after reading more documentation, it does have that mode. Unfortunately, the minimum Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) cycle time is 30 seconds. Most PID controllers that work with SSR switches have minimum cycle times of 1 - 2 seconds. This long minimum cycle time leads me to believe that the controller uses mechanical power relays rather than SSRs.

The 30 second min cycle time means that at 50% power your element will be on at max power for 15 seconds. This could be a problem in a RIMS application, where overheating and scorching of the wort is a risk when the element is on for a long time at full power.

PWM power control is actually full on and off switching. So that when the controller is calling for 50% power, the element is at 100% power for 50% of the cycle time and 0% for 50% of the cycle time. With a 30 second cycle time you would be at 100% power for 15 seconds. With a 1 second cycle time you would only be at full power for 0.5 seconds. The max element surface temperature will be much higher with the longer cycle time. Not a big deal for an HLT, but a potential disaster in a RIMS.

This controller is suitable for fermentation temperature control, or HLT temp control, but I would recommend against using it for RIMS control or boil control.

Brew on

First can I say thank you for your reply/explanation.

I will say I have no idea about these things and have obviously been lucky in my use of this controller to date.

May I ask you what you would recommend as the lowest cost controller suitable for my RIMS setup please keeping in mind this is only used for ‘topping up the temp’ and not to heat liquid from ambient to boiling?

 

[doug293cz]

May I ask you what you would recommend as the lowest cost controller suitable for my RIMS setup please keeping in mind this is only used for ‘topping up the temp’ and not to heat liquid from ambient to boiling?

My primary interest is in designing control panels for DIY builders, so don't keep up with everything going on with commercial, turn-key controllers. That said, the two options I do know about are the Blichmann BrewCommander, and the Auber Instruments Cube. @Bobby_M may be able to offer you more detailed advice on turn-key controllers.

Brew on

 

[UdonPete]

My primary interest is in designing control panels for DIY builders, so don't keep up with everything going on with commercial, turn-key controllers. That said, the two options I do know about are the Blichmann BrewCommander, and the Auber Instruments Cube. @Bobby_M may be able to offer you more detailed advice on turn-key controllers.

Brew on

Thank you, appreciate your time, will look at both

 

[UdonPete]

My primary interest is in designing control panels for DIY builders, so don't keep up with everything going on with commercial, turn-key controllers. That said, the two options I do know about are the Blichmann BrewCommander, and the Auber Instruments Cube. @Bobby_M may be able to offer you more detailed advice on turn-key controllers.

Brew on

Good morning

Having spent some time looking at the Blichmann BrewCommander and the Auber Instruments Cube amongst several other controllers I have come to the conclusion these are all A, way more sophisticated than what I need having multiple programable profiles etc etc and B, very expensive - although I don’t doubt worth the money should one need all the features.

As mentioned I just need a simple (manual) controller for keeping my mash temp constant via a RIMs Tube after heating the water by gas and then occasionally raising the temp for a mash out. Also if doing a hopstand after the boil to keep that temp constant.

May I ask if you know of any simple PID controller that would fit this need please?
Thank you

 

[doug293cz]

Good morning

Having spent some time looking at the Blichmann BrewCommander and the Auber Instruments Cube amongst several other controllers I have come to the conclusion these are all A, way more sophisticated than what I need having multiple programable profiles etc etc and B, very expensive - although I don’t doubt worth the money should one need all the features.

As mentioned I just need a simple (manual) controller for keeping my mash temp constant via a RIMs Tube after heating the water by gas and then occasionally raising the temp for a mash out. Also if doing a hopstand after the boil to keep that temp constant.

May I ask if you know of any simple PID controller that would fit this need please?
Thank you

The simple PIDs still need to be wired with switches, relays, SSRs, fuses, connectors, etc. to produce a working unit. If you do not wish to build the controller yourself, you need to select one of the commercially available ones that are pre-built. The BrewCommander and Cube are the two least expensive ones that I know of.

For a RIMS element only controller, you could use the Inkbird IPB-16S pre-built controller, but it is 120V only, and only supports a max load of 15A (1800W, but should actually be limited ~1650W.)

Brew on

 

[sibelman]

element selector switch.

OP wants to buy, not build. But could do some of each with a DIY selector switch in a box with two outlets and an input power cord to the store-bought controller.

Not a complex or expensive build.

 

[Dland]

Good morning

Having spent some time looking at the Blichmann BrewCommander and the Auber Instruments Cube amongst several other controllers I have come to the conclusion these are all A, way more sophisticated than what I need having multiple programable profiles etc etc and B, very expensive - although I don’t doubt worth the money should one need all the features.

As mentioned I just need a simple (manual) controller for keeping my mash temp constant via a RIMs Tube after heating the water by gas and then occasionally raising the temp for a mash out. Also if doing a hopstand after the boil to keep that temp constant.

Is the reason you still use gas for heating due to current limitations? If not, you'd find the boil time and timing response of a 4500W or 5500W element to be superior to gas. When I went electric, I was pleasantly surprised how much faster, cheaper and cleaner it was to heat with electric. One big upside is speed of control, you can turn down current to BK at point of boil and prevent boil over. I used to have to use Ferm Cap S foam control when I was heating wort with gas, or use a painfully slow flame.

In any case, I have an Auber Cube, and have been generally satisfied with it. I do have to switch the cord and temp controller from HLT to BK, but that is not so hard. I do agree it's programming options are more than I need, and would not mind if it was simpler.

 

[Bobby_M]

Good morning

Having spent some time looking at the Blichmann BrewCommander and the Auber Instruments Cube amongst several other controllers I have come to the conclusion these are all A, way more sophisticated than what I need having multiple programable profiles etc etc and B, very expensive - although I don’t doubt worth the money should one need all the features.

As mentioned I just need a simple (manual) controller for keeping my mash temp constant via a RIMs Tube after heating the water by gas and then occasionally raising the temp for a mash out. Also if doing a hopstand after the boil to keep that temp constant.

May I ask if you know of any simple PID controller that would fit this need please?
Thank you

I'm not aware of a cheaper (well built) off the shelf solution. At the bare minimum you need:

1. 1/16th DIN PID controller module. These can be purchased for about $15
2. 25A Solid State Relay $10
3. Heat Sink $10
4. Temp Probe. $5-50 depending on physical configuration/cable/quick disconnects.

One of the hot wires that feed the element simply gets cut and those two ends go on the SSR power terminals. Now the control module tells the SSR when to "touch those two wires together".

That limited set of parts would mimic the brew commander but without any of the schedule/timer/boil control functions. The BC doesn't have any fail safe mechanical disconnection of power inside. It's basically a very pretty interface but otherwise is just opening up the current flow through an SSR via temp probe feedback through simple software just like the above parts would do.

 

[UdonPete]

As there seems nothing on the market to suit my needs I will try and make one myself.
On YouTube there are many examples how to do this e.g.
and following these plus this kit https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-PID-4-Variation/dp/B094R5HBC2
I shall see what I can do
Be an interesting project if nothing else

Thanks everyone for your inputs

 

[Cameronl]

As there seems nothing on the market to suit my needs I will try and make one myself.
On YouTube there are many examples how to do this e.g.
and following these plus this kit https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-PID-4-Variation/dp/B094R5HBC2
I shall see what I can do
Be an interesting project if nothing else

Thanks everyone for your inputs

Check out Skirlnetz for very detailed plans for a simple controller. I found it to be a great jumping off point for my build.

 

[UdonPete]

Check out Skirlnetz for very detailed plans for a simple controller. I found it to be a great jumping off point for my build.
View attachment 855629

Perfect - thank you very much

 

[bf514921]

You may be able to have a custom panel built if you are still looking for something like that. https://www.groundedbrewingtechnologies.com/ has a custom panel option. I had one done a few years ago from this company that was very competitive on pricing, and was exactly what I wanted. Cheers.

 

[passedpawn]

I have a 240 30A outlet. I have a 3v herms system that I put together from my Unibrau AIO system. I added a couple Spike tanks for MT and HLT. I am willing to use a single element controller while switching the cord but would prefer not to have to swap out the cord. I like the price of the single element controllers though. Anyone have experience with single element and 2 element controller with a 3v system that could share their thoughts?

Not hard to build. I built mine 15 years ago and used it for 10 of those. You need a PID with relay (current) output, a DP3T switch, and two SSDs.

First, you need to route the PID output to one of two SSDs. That requires a SPDT switch. Rest assured, because the input of those SSDs is an LED, if there is no current, it will not be on.

Next, you need to route the temperature sensor (RTD?) from the selected kettle back to the PID. This requires another SPDT switch.

If you're clever, you'll find a DPDT switch so you can switch both things at the same time. Or better yet, a DP3T switch so you can have an off position. This is what I did.

 

[cyoung1833]

Can I use Auber Brew Buddy II 50a on my 30a outlet? I'm only considering this because I have the opportunity to buy a used Brew Buddy II at a really good price. Obviously, I would not be able to run both elements at the same time on 30a. Seller claims that this would be no problem on 30a as long as only running one at a time. Can't make up my mind if this is possible.

 

[doug293cz]

Can I use Auber Brew Buddy II 50a on my 30a outlet? I'm only considering this because I have the opportunity to buy a used Brew Buddy II at a really good price. Obviously, I would not be able to run both elements at the same time on 30a. Seller claims that this would be no problem on 30a as long as only running one at a time. Can't make up my mind if this is possible.

This can work, but since the controller is designed for a 50A service, it will not have any interlock provision to prevent accidentally turning on both elements at the same time. You will have to change the plug on the cord to the controller, as putting a 50A outlet receptacle on a 30A circuit is a violation of the electrical code.

Brew on