Hydrometer in the carboy

[fletchergsmith]

Flipping through how to brew and saw a section that states you must use a test gar and not put the hydrometer directly in the fermenter. The obvious reason for this is possibility of contamination.
My question is this, can I sanitize my hydrometer and drop it in the carboy and leave it there so I can check it as often as I want to look through the glass. My thoughts are that adding the hydrometer has no more possibility of contamination than drawing a sample. The real hazard would be removing it.
My cause for hesitation is that it may not give even close to accurate readings due to co2 bubbles or yeast attaching to the walls of the hydrometer raising it. Or any other variables I've not thought of.
Even though I doubt it will be as accurate I feel it would give me a better insight into what is going on through out the fermentation be able to have readings twice daily.


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[LLBeanJ]

Leaving aside the issue of possible breakage when inserting or removing the hyrdrometer from a carboy, if you put the hydrometer in the wort at the start of fermentation, it will undoubtedly acquire a krausen ring around it that would render it pretty much useless for taking readings since you would not be able to read it and the weight of the krausen would cause it to give false readings even if you could read it. You could wait until the krausen dropped before inserting the hydrometer, but by then you would be pretty close to FG, so any insight into what was happening throughout fermentation would not be gained. This doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

 

[fletchergsmith]

Didn't think about breakage, but I don't think there is to much risk. I neglected to state it but I was considering adding it at the time I would generally take my first reading (about a week after pitching yeast). At that point there is more going on that isn't as visible and I would like to see when fermentation stops. This is an attempt to give me a more accurate judge of how long to wait between the end of fermentation and bottling.
I am worried that my fermentation may be done in a week and then I wait to long to test and have it sitting on the yeast cake to long, or the opposite and don't have it on the yeast long enough.
If it works it may be a simple and elegant solution to my problem, sacrificing some accuracy. If it doesn't work then I may just need to buy a refractor and test more often.



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[GuldTuborg]

If your time frame is measured in weeks as to when you bottle, I don't think you have much to worry about. You're not going to let it sit too long. If you let an average beer go 2-3 weeks and then test once for completeness (of fermentation), you can decide then to bottle or take other actions. Don't overcomplicate this. I don't think your proposed solution will get you what you want.

 

[LLBeanJ]

By all means, do what you think make the most sense. It is, after all, your brew. But I do think you'd be taking unnecessary risks by putting a very fragile, thin-walled glass instrument into your full container of beer. There's no way I'd do that. Not even for a few minutes and certainly not for several days.

But I have to agree with Guld. There's no need to over-complicate things. Until the krausen drops, the beer is not done. Once it does drop, it's very close to being done. With that in mind...

1. Watch fermentation and wait for krausen to drop.
2. After krausen drops, wait 3 days and take a reading. If at predicted FG or within a couple of points, you can:
a) transfer to secondary (if you're into that)
b) keg it (if you keg)
c) wait 3 more days and if no further movement in gravity, bottle it (if you bottle).

Work to the above schedule and the time the beer spends on the yeast will be a non-issue.

 

[beergolf]

There are several flaws in this idea. The hydrometer is fragile so I would not put it in the carboy. If there is any bubbles at all it will be impossible to read. And lastly if you brew more than one brew you would need a hydrometer for each brew. I often have four or five brews in various stages of fermentation going at all times.

 

[CTownBrewer]

I think there's a lot of value in tasting the beer along the way. That way you begin to learn what flavors present in a young beer will drop out & which ones don't.

I usually take hydrometer readings on days 7, 10, & 14...usually, the day 10 & 14 readings are the same, so I know I'd be fine bottling or kegging at that point. Typically, I leave it on the yeast a full 21 days to be safe & also clean-up byproducts of fermentation.

The beauty of brewing is that you can do it however you want. You just won't get a completely accurate reading by leaving it in a fermenting carboy or bucket. You also mentioned a refractometer...just remember to take into account that a refractometer will not be accurate either in the presence of alcohol. It's a more useful tool when taking readings during the boil. It only takes 5 minutes to sanitize a turkey baster to pull a sample, so I don't see any reason not to.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

When I take mid fermentation readings I usually santitize the hydrometer, drop it into the fermenter and give it a spin to release the co2 bubbles. Its a bit more difficult to discern the miniscus, but its good enough for me.

 

[GuldTuborg]

When I take mid fermentation readings I usually santitize the hydrometer, drop it into the fermenter and give it a spin to release the co2 bubbles. Its a bit more difficult to discern the miniscus, but its good enough for me.

That's one thing, but putting it in before kraeusen has dropped is quite another. That's just a good way to get kraeusen stuck to it and make any "readings" you might get from it not even useful enough to track changes over time.

 

[cjonesga]

One other consideration for not doing this is the probability that the kraeusen that remains stuck to the side of the carboy after dropping will make it very difficult to read through the glass. Draw a sample to test.

 

[kh54s10]

The flaws I see are: I wouldn't be able to read it through the gunk on the inside of my Better Bottle. If not krausen, other gunk will adhere to the hydrometer, skewing any reading. The danger of contamination. The fragility of the hydrometer.

The advice to take gravity readings on day 7, 10 and 14 then waiting until day 21 anyway is just asking for trouble. (oxidation if not infection) Leave it alone until day 19 take a reading then another on 21, if the same, go ahead and bottle.

 

[GuldTuborg]

I'm curious to know what the plan is to get it out of the carboy, too. A bucket is one thing, but a carboy's narrow neck is quite another.

 

[BGBC]

I'm curious to know what the plan is to get it out of the carboy, too. A bucket is one thing, but a carboy's narrow neck is quite another.

This.

 

[fuelish]

I say go for it...you'll live and you'll learn...just sayin'

 

[fletchergsmith]

Thanks for all the input, it's much appreciated.

As for the fragility of the hydrometer, I don't see how it would be an issue out side of the initial placement and removal.(I could of course be wrong and would have to dump the batch)
I plan on lowering in the hydrometer slowly so it won't smack the bottom after the krausen has dropped, and for removal I will just dump it out after racking to the bottling bucket.
I still plan on comparing it to another hydrometer reading done in the test jar as normal.
As far as risk of contamination or oxygenation I don't see how it could be any more than taking a sample.
I think I'll give it a shot on my next batch and see if there is anything to be gained.( unlikely but what the hell)



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[doornumber3]

Waiting for a new post in broken hydrometer count.


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[GuldTuborg]

and for removal I will just dump it out after racking to the bottling bucket.

Good luck with that. I'm serious; you'll need it.

 

[Hello]

Do it! Report back on the results.

 

[podz]

This is the reason why it's easier to use a bucket with a spigot.

Anyway, if you're going to use a carboy and you want to take measurements then you'll need to buy a "wine thief". You'll need to sanitize your wine thief inside and out each time before you insert it into your carboy. You'll also want to invest in a 100 ml graduated cylinder (a piece of chemistry glass). The standard amount that a thief will pull out is 100 ml or just a bit more. You need exactly 100 ml of fluid in your cylinder for the hydrometer to work properly. Less than 100 and the hydrometer can hit the bottom, more than 100 and the liquid will overflow.

 

[CTownBrewer]

I've never had an oxidation issue or infection taking multiple gravity readings. One of the things Jamil says over & over again is to taste, taste, taste the beer through the entire process. Unless you forget about sanitation & shake the crap out of the fermenter every time you take a sample, you could take more readings than that if you want. It's off-gassing CO2, so there's a protective blanket over the beer from whatever minimal O2 may be introduced. We're talking sub-threshold levels of O2 here...nothing that will ever be detected in the final beer unless you're doing something wrong.

I've been bulk aging a sour for 10 months now, taking a sample each month & have no oxidized flavors. The Brett character (which requires O2 to develop) is very minimal & I didn't even have a pellicle form, so there can't be much O2 present even with samples being taken 3 times during primary & 10 during secondary.

I'm not saying he should use my method if he's going to put the hydrometer directly inside the fermenter, because the potential for oxygen introduction is greater due to the lid/airlock being off for an extended period of time & the probable extra rousing of the wort when spinning the hydrometer. I would use a turkey baster/wine thief to pull a sample & take the reading separately. It's easy to do...easy to read an accurate result...and can be tasted along the way for learning purposes.

Just my 2c.

The flaws I see are: I wouldn't be able to read it through the gunk on the inside of my Better Bottle. If not krausen, other gunk will adhere to the hydrometer, skewing any reading. The danger of contamination. The fragility of the hydrometer.

The advice to take gravity readings on day 7, 10 and 14 then waiting until day 21 anyway is just asking for trouble. (oxidation if not infection) Leave it alone until day 19 take a reading then another on 21, if the same, go ahead and bottle.

 

[fletchergsmith]

I'm afraid my point might be missed a little. I put the hydrometer in the carboy after the krausen falls and replace the air lock. The idea is that I can limit the amount if samples I draw down to two. Instead of drawing out a six pack one test jar at a time. This idea is only intended to help me work out my process.

Just to clarify not trying to start an argument.
Chances of success seem to be slim, and chances of catastrophic failure are very present, but I'm willing to risk it.


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[BGBC]

My cause for hesitation is that it may not give even close to accurate readings due to co2 bubbles or yeast attaching to the walls of the hydrometer raising it.

Your beer, your call.

You came for advice and the consensus seems to be not to do it though. Your initial hesitations are still valid (will you be able to reach the hydrometer to spin it if there are bubbles clinging to it?), on top of the risks of actually getting it in and out of the carboy.

Cheers and good luck though, would be interested to see pics if you do end up dropping it in there though.

 

[cjonesga]

The best successes were always preceded by trial and error! If you don't try it, you'll never know the outcome!

 

[fletchergsmith]

So I gave it a shot and it was a failure. No breakage or problems with removal, just inaccurate readings. Yeast rafts clumped to the bottom of the hydrometer causing it to rise above the point it was when I placed it. The experiment was a success in the fact that it yielded a definitive result, just not the one I was hoping for.

Conclusion: hydrometer in the carboy = not worth the trouble


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[fletchergsmith]

Ps sorry forgot to take pics

Beer seems to have had no ill effect but it's not done conditioning yet.