Hydrogen peroxide in a pinch

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maple_shaft

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I have read a lot online about the use of hydrogen peroxide as a last resort no-rinse sanitizing agent. I am still unsure about this.

I was hoping to start a cascade pale ale tomorrow as I won't get another chance in over a week, and I don't have time to drive out to the store and get something else.

All i have is a teaspoon of one-step, scented bleach, loads of oxy-clean and two bottles of 3% diluted hydro peroxide.

I was thinking about using a cotton ball to soak my fermenter, and then pour some solution directly into a container with everything i want to sanitize, my hydrometer, my air lock, etc...

Any other suggestions or cautions will be welcome. Like i said, if I don't do it tomorrow then i got to wait a week, and I want to get started on this.

Thanks guys, you are a huge help!
 

Nurmey

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I don't think I would risk expensive ingredients without having a tried and true sanitizer. If you can't get to a LHBS for a sanitizer, every market has unscented bleach. I don't use bleach myself but no one can dispute it's sanitizing capabilities. I would trust bleach over using an iffy peroxide solution.
 

Revvy

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I've never heard of using that as an sanitizer...I'd like to read the info...

Bleach is sort of the old school way people have done it, but now with no rinse, wet contact sanitizer like starsan and iodophor even rinsing bleech may be a pita.

Many people on here use regular old iodine dilluted as well...I have bulk iodine dairy antiseptic from the tractor supply company.

Peroxide? I wouldn't risk it...
 

fratermus

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If you can't get to a LHBS for a sanitizer, every market has unscented bleach.
There is info on [ame="http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aepa.gov+hydrogen+peroxide+sanitizer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a"]hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizer on the EPA website[/ame], including [ame="http://www.epa.gov/nhsrc/news/news111606.html"]this[/ame] kind of thing:

In aqueous or gaseous forms, hydrogen peroxide exhibits decontamination efficacy against bacterial spores, vegetative bacteria, viruses, amoeba, and prions. Hydrogen peroxide is considered less toxic than other fumigants such as chlorine dioxide, ethylene oxide, and formaldehyde, and breaks down into water and oxygen. Therefore, gaseous hydrogen peroxide has been used as a decontaminant for treating laboratory and medical equipment, pharmaceutical facilities, hospital rooms, and animal holding rooms.
Since we are new to this, you may not have time to review the literature. I would seriously consider an unscented bleach solution with a rinse, or the Charlie Talley no-rinse pH-adjusted bleach method (1ozBWV).
 

mrbowenz

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70% isopropyl alcohol does a fine job sanitizing and it's pretty cheap, i use it all the time in my brewery
 

chillHayze

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Even the scented bleach would work. Just needs a good rinse which may or may not lightly contaminate whatever you sanitize with it. Probably will be fine. I'd do it.

Get some star-san on order. Cheers.
 
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maple_shaft

maple_shaft

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Rinsing the scented bleach off seems more risky then simply using the peroxide. From what I am gathering that just a splash of it on the surface will effectively sanitize it within 10 minutes at a 3% solution.

I imagine the only reason that it isn't talked about or used on any measurable scale for brewing is because it is cost prohibitive. Iodophor and star-san are much cheaper in bulk, although I have never used them and they are a little intimidating to me I don't know why??

So with BWV method I can mix one ounce of bleach with one ounce of vinegar for 5 gallons and I don't need to rinse?

Is that 100% concentrated bleach? If so then does the grocery store sell that? I live out in the sticks, if the grocery store doesn't sell any kind of measurable concentration of unscented bleach then i am pretty much stuck with using peroxide.
 

fratermus

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So with BWV method I can mix one ounce of bleach with one ounce of vinegar for 5 gallons and I don't need to rinse?
To be explicit: never mix bleach and vinegar unless you are trying to recreate WWI chlorine gas warfare in your house. That would be Bad.

Yes, you add 1oz bleach to 5gal water, then add in 1oz vinegar. Normal bleach from the store. Theoretically no rinse is necessary at that dilution. I have tested it as no-rinse and have had no off-flavors from santization.
 

lmg95

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NH3 + NaOCl --> NaOH + NH2Cl
NH3 + NH2Cl + NaOH -->N2H4 + NaCl + H2O

2NH2Cl + N2H4 --> 2NH4Cl + N2 + HEAT

Sorry, just having fun with bleach and ammonia
 

menschmaschine

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For the microbes that H2O2 kills, it REALLY kills them (like a disinfectant). The problem is that some types of microbes are unaffected by it. Most of the bacteria that are pathogenic to humans, it kills. Whether or not it kills the ones that commonly infect beer, I don't know.

This goes back to my microbiology course in college. We did an experiment with H2O2 on bacteria and it killed some and others were unaffected. I can't remember the exact difference though... gram negative vs. gram positive, spore forming vs. non-spore forming, etc. If there are any microbiologists on here, perhaps they could enlighten us.

In other words, I wouldn't trust it.
 

Pabst Blue Robot

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It may also be worth noting that H2O2 is a powerful oxidizer and that effect may by undesirable depending on what part of the brewing process you're using it in.
 
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maple_shaft

maple_shaft

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It may also be worth noting that H2O2 is a powerful oxidizer and that effect may by undesirable depending on what part of the brewing process you're using it in.
Duly noted and accounted for. I can assume that the oxidation is good for aerating the yeast after I pitch. I am not so worried about that. At which time however I should have a better sanitizer for moving to my secondary and then bottling.

I just finished up and got everything in my primary ready to go. I was dilligent and careful with making sure I used peroxide liberally. It is clear and oderless at 3% solution so I was a little concerned, but then my hands later started burning then the skin started peeling and bubbling where i came into contact with the peroxide for an extended period. I also noticed that with an open sore on my hand it burned like hell so I knew the solution was potent and not decomposed.

But again I am interested in the BWV method but my primary concern remains unanswered. Is this infact one ounce of 100% bleach and if so where can I find this? Clorox has something to the effect of a 6% concentration. Is there anything that is readily and cheaply available at a higher concentration that is essentially just bleach and water, no other bizarre chemical additives? I can always figure out the math in a less than 100% solution.

So where do i find this? I want to stay away from iodophor and star-san because the local homebrew guy charges entirely too much for it and he is a far drive from where I live. I prefer to use something more readily available.
 

SumnerH

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Duly noted and accounted for. I can assume that the oxidation is good for aerating the yeast after I pitch. I am not so worried about that. At which time however I should have a better sanitizer for moving to my secondary and then bottling.

I just finished up and got everything in my primary ready to go. I was dilligent and careful with making sure I used peroxide liberally. It is clear and oderless at 3% solution so I was a little concerned, but then my hands later started burning then the skin started peeling and bubbling where i came into contact with the peroxide for an extended period. I also noticed that with an open sore on my hand it burned like hell so I knew the solution was potent and not decomposed.

But again I am interested in the BWV method but my primary concern remains unanswered. Is this infact one ounce of 100% bleach and if so where can I find this? Clorox has something to the effect of a 6% concentration. Is there anything that is readily and cheaply available at a higher concentration that is essentially just bleach and water, no other bizarre chemical additives? I can always figure out the math in a less than 100% solution.

So where do i find this? I want to stay away from iodophor and star-san because the local homebrew guy charges entirely too much for it and he is a far drive from where I live. I prefer to use something more readily available.
1. You should grab some Star-San; once you mix it up, it lasts months. So it usually winds up cheaper than bleach.
2. Bleach + vinegar is dangerous unless you know what you're doing.
3. Basic Brewing? : Home Brewing Beer Podcast and DVD - Basic Brewing Radio? 2007 listen to Charly Talley's interview from March 29, 2007 to find out _how_ to do the bleach/vinegar thing. He's the Starsan founder, and he spends the last half talking about his products, but the first half he explains how to do the bleach thing, what kinds of bleaches to look for in the store, etc. The one right before that is the iodophor founder (also a fine sanitizer).

The "streaming mp3" link is free.
 

fratermus

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Is this infact one ounce of 100% bleach and if so where can I find this? Clorox has something to the effect of a 6% concentration.
The bleach for the BWV method is normal, cheap, generic, unscented bleach like one might find in the laundry department at walmart. Charlie T. suggests the cheapest possible bleach as it will be less likely to contain (from our POV) adulterants.

There may be stronger bleaches out there but the recipe Charlie gave is for the normal stuff.

Check out that podcast; he goes into some detail about the how/why of it all. Pretty interesting.
 

newkarian

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No one has mentioned that iodaphor iodine can be picked up cheaply and easily everywhere. I would rather use that instead of bleach unless someone is allergic to iodine.
 

beerocd

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Oxiclean is a great cleanser.
It must be rinsed and it isn't used as a sanitizer.
I'm a fan of StarSan for sanitizing.
Hydrogen Peroxide is also an Oxygen bleach, just way more expensive.
Oxygen bleach is a sanitizer - just not "official" according to the gubmint.
I think there's a thread or two on this subject already though. ;)

-OCD
 

wilserbrewer

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I'm a fan of star san and keep a big bottle handy that I mix up a half gallon at a time, it will probably last me a couple years.

If I wanted to brew, and were without it, I would absolutely try any of the listed alternatives, bleach, peroxide, rubbbing alcohol, even oxi w/out a worry.

Way too much worrying in this thread for me, c'mon guys, your airlock should never even touch your beer.

If you are using an ale pail or any HDPE fermenter, you could also probably heat sanitize it w/ a few gallons of boiling water.
 

malkore

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The description posted on peroxide mentions bacterial spores. it mentions NOTHING about mold/fungal spores, and that's a chief concern as far as infections go.

get some unscented bleach at the grocery store.
 

mr_y82

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For the microbes that H2O2 kills, it REALLY kills them (like a disinfectant). The problem is that some types of microbes are unaffected by it. Most of the bacteria that are pathogenic to humans, it kills. Whether or not it kills the ones that commonly infect beer, I don't know.

This goes back to my microbiology course in college. We did an experiment with H2O2 on bacteria and it killed some and others were unaffected. I can't remember the exact difference though... gram negative vs. gram positive, spore forming vs. non-spore forming, etc. If there are any microbiologists on here, perhaps they could enlighten us.

In other words, I wouldn't trust it.
maybe aerobic bacteria could thrive with all the extra oxygen?

sorry to revive an old thread...

this site seems to approve of h202... I have used bleach, sans, and iodophor...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Cleaning_and_Sanitation
 
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