How would you dry hop this NEIPA?

[CascadesBrewer]

This weekend I brewed the Cloudburst Brewing Flashing Lights IPA kit from MoreBeer:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/c...shing-lights-ipa-grain-beer-kit-advanced.html

It is not fully an NEIPA, but what I did was to brew 2.5 gal per the recipe and 2.5 gal with more of an NEIPA bend (swapped 1 lb of grain for 8 oz each of flaked wheat, and flaked oats; no gypsum in the water; used WLP013 London Ale vs WLP001 California in the other). I have never brewed an NEIPA, and I am not even sure how much I like NEIPA, but I am curious how the two batches will turn out.

The 5 gal recipe calls for dry hopping with 3 oz Citra and 2 oz Mosaic (so I will be adding half to each). For the NEIPA I plan to dry hop during fermentation (maybe on day 2?). Would you add the full amount at that time, or split up the dry hops into maybe a Day 2 addition and another 3 days before kegging? I would like to keep the amount of dry hops the same between the two batches, just at different times.

 

[Jag75]

I would do day 2 of fermentation then do the rest towards the end .

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Split the dry hop. Do 1/3 as fermentation is winding down, the rest 3-4 days later. Don't forget a diacetyl rest.

 

[Jag75]

Split the dry hop. Do 1/3 as fermentation is winding down, the rest 3-4 days later. Don't forget a diacetyl rest.

Wouldn't the fermentation temp of the ale yeast be in the parameters of a diacetyl rest anyways?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Split the dry hop. Do 1/3 as fermentation is winding down, the rest 3-4 days later. Don't forget a diacetyl rest.

This seems reasonable. I felt like if I added all the dry hops on day 2 or 3 I might not get enough aroma in the final beer. I see WLP013 recommended as a NEIPA yeast, but I am not actually sure if it is capable of biotransformation.

This is my first batch in my recently acquired fermentation chamber (a small $25 used freezer), so I might actually be able to do stuff like diacetyl rests and cold crashing. The half with WPL001 brewed on Saturday is chugging away, and the half WLP013 batch from yesterday was showing signs of fermentation this morning.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Wouldn't the fermentation temp of the ale yeast be in the parameters of a diacetyl rest anyways?

I guess it depends on your primary fermentation temps. If you're fermenting at 63, it's worth bumping up the temps as the fermentation winds down to encourage the yeast to "clean up". Especially given that the dry hop can add enzymes that can trigger some more primary fermentation.

I always start raising my temp about a degree a day up to somewhere near the upper limit of the yeast when I drop my first batch of dry hops. I had one batch that I rushed after the second dry hop and it got warm when a nephew turned off the kegerator. That batch ended up with pronounced diacetyl. I now give it some extra time after the last dry hop to ensure things are cleaned up prior to cold crashing and kegging.

 

[Jag75]

Diacetyl rest would be 66 degrees and over?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Diacetyl rest would be 66 degrees and over?

That's a good question I guess. I don't recall hearing an absolute temperature, just raising it to a temp where the yeast will get more active. I typically ramp up to about 70 for most ale yeasts.

 

[Jag75]

I may be wrong but I see diacetyl rest talked about in lagers . They ferment cold and then when it's almost done they ramp up temp day by day as you said . I think its hold around 66 or so for 3 days then drop again day by day a little at a time .

I usually ferment ale yeast at 65 to 70 also

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I know that in Palmer's "How to Brew" he recommends boosting the fermentation temp as part of the Maturation Phase to control diacetyl (and other flavors). I have never really had a system where I could control temps very well. Looking at Palmer's guidance, it seems off from what I know about ale fermentation (though I suspect he knows just a tad more than I do on the subject). He recommends a temp boost on day 3 or 4 of 5-10F (3-6C) and to hold this temp for 4 to 8 days. That seems like quite a big temp boost and quite early in the process. It is not something I have ever played with. I do see where he says that if you do not boost the temps, then just double the time of the Maturation Phase (to twice that of the High Growth phase...so around 8 days?). I guess I have mostly thought you wanted to hold temps to under 65F for the fermentation phase.

 

[EcuPirate07]

If you are splitting the hops between 2 different brews then, the half that goes to the NEIPA. I would do 1/3 at high krausen then 2/3 a couple days before you bottle/keg. I’ve had good luck with dry hopping 2-3 days in then just dry hop in the keg. One of the reasons I do this is to cut down on 02 exposure. 2-3 days in, the yeast will scrub out any 02 but at the end of Fermentation it’s harder. So keeping my system closed at the end really helps with cutting down on oxidation. Also you may wanna bump the hops if you can. 1-1/2oz citra and 1oz of mosaic dry hopped isn’t really a ton. I would at the very least double the amount if you can. In the past I’ve done close to a pound of hops in the whole brew (a recent study says this is over kill and after X ozs it’s a waste) so I’m changing my hop amounts now, but if you can buy hops locally I would get more to add.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

If you are splitting the hops between 2 different brews then, the half that goes to the NEIPA. I would do 1/3 at high krausen then 2/3 a couple days before you bottle/keg. I’ve had good luck with dry hopping 2-3 days in then just dry hop in the keg.

Thanks. I had really bad results the time I dry hopped in a keg...but I left the hops in the keg and the bag sunk to the bottom so every pour seemed to be through the bag and had hop particles and a rancid hop flavor that increased over time. It was a 2xIPA and most people liked it, but I did not. If I dry hopped in a keg again I would 1) keep it above 60F as cold has a reputation of extracting grassy flavors and 2) make sure I remove the hop bag (or suspended it from the lid so it was not in the hops after a little while...I don't like the idea of opening the keg to remove the hops).

Also you may wanna bump the hops if you can. 1-1/2oz citra and 1oz of mosaic dry hopped isn’t really a ton.

I am still trying to find my way with dry hops. That recent 2xIPA had 2 oz Citra dry hop in the fermenter and 2 oz in the keg and I felt it was a bit overpowering for me (5 gal batch). This recipe calls for 5 oz to a 5 gal batch, so I feel like 2.5 oz into a 2.5 gal batch should be good for me.

The NEIPA batch from Sunday is chugging away now, so I will probably add the first round of hops to that batch in a day or so.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

FYI...both of these beers turned out solid. I ended up dry hopping the NEIPA version with 1/3 of the hops around day 2 and the rest 3 days before cold crashing. The beer on the left is the NEIPA version (with flaked wheat and oats, London Ale yeast, split dry hops) and the version on the right is the Hoppy IPA version (no wheat/oats, American Ale Yeast, dry hopped after fermentation, added gypsum). So far, tasters have been fairly mixed on preference, but I REALLY like the NEIPA version. I am not a massive Citra fan, so I am planning to build off the NEIPA recipe with a different balance of hops.

 

[EcuPirate07]

FYI...both of these beers turned out solid. I ended up dry hopping the NEIPA version with 1/3 of the hops around day 2 and the rest 3 days before cold crashing. The beer on the left is the NEIPA version (with flaked wheat and oats, London Ale yeast, split dry hops) and the version on the right is the Hoppy IPA version (no wheat/oats, American Ale Yeast, dry hopped after fermentation, added gypsum). So far, tasters have been fairly mixed on preference, but I REALLY like the NEIPA version. I am not a massive Citra fan, so I am planning to build off the NEIPA recipe with a different balance of hops.

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Nice! Glad it turned out well.