How to use amylase enzyme in brewing to bring down the gravity

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TwistedGray

El Jefe Brewing Company
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I have searched on here along with countless other Google searches, and I cannot find an all inclusive article/thread on the topic. At least, I cannot find anything that helps me with my current situation, and thus I have a few questions.

Scenario - Fermentation completed, attempting to use amylase to bring down the gravity.

1. What should the temperature be of the fermented wort (daresay beer at this point) for the amylase to function at its peak?

2. Approximately how long do I need to leave the enzyme active before heating it up to stop it?

3. In conjunction to #2, what temperature do I need to bring it up to in order to kill the enzyme and for how long does it need to be at that temperature?

4a. Is there a certain period of time that the enzyme will need in order to start working?
4b. If so, how long after pitching the powder and for how long should I keep it going before stopping it (see #3)?

Thanks everyone :)
 
Lots more info here: Escape from Stuck Fermentation Mountain - AE to the Rescue!. More data points, but not a definitive discourse on the subject.

My best guesses below. I have a little experience, but not a lot.

1. For peak activity, enzymes need to be as warm as possible. Mash temperatures. But they will work at room temperature, or fermentation temperature, albeit much slower. How slow? I've watched them drop a beer 16 gravity points (1.028 to 1.012) in 9 days at room temperature. Well, they cleaved the sugars and the yeast actually did the job of dropping the gravity. So, you should be able to extrapolate from that.

2. Depending on the beer you're making, you might not need to stop them at all. The enzymes will take the beer to between 85-90% attenuation. So, if you start at 1.060, you might end up at 1.006. Likely a bad thing. I've got a light lager on tap right now that I added enzymes to (by design). It started at around 1.040. I don't remember where it ended, but it was low, but that's what I was hoping for. Now, if you made a stout that got stuck at 1.030, you might want to denature before it gets too low.

3. Not sure about kill parameters. It's probably some sort of exponential thing that indicates you never get 100%. Alcohol boils at 170-ish, so you might want to stay under that. But I think that's about where you need to be to get those enzymes to denature quickly. Also, I'd be concerned about cooking a lot of yeast that way, though that might not be a concern because I've seen others pastuerize beers with suspended yeast and I don't think it was an issue. I'd seriously consider filtering the yeast out and not worring about he enzymes (I have the filtering equipment already).

4a. If there is yeast in suspension, the enzymatic activity and fermentation will get started immediately.
4b. I'd use a hydrometer to know when to do that.

Bonus: I use 1 tsp per carboy.
 
passedpawn said:
Lots more info here: Escape from Stuck Fermentation Mountain - AE to the Rescue!. More data points, but not a definitive discourse on the subject.

My best guesses below. I have a little experience, but not a lot.

1. For peak activity, enzymes need to be as warm as possible. Mash temperatures. But they will work at room temperature, or fermentation temperature, albeit much slower. How slow? I've watched them drop a beer 16 gravity points (1.028 to 1.012) in 9 days at room temperature. Well, they cleaved the sugars and the yeast actually did the job of dropping the gravity. So, you should be able to extrapolate from that.

2. Depending on the beer you're making, you might not need to stop them at all. The enzymes will take the beer to between 85-90% attenuation. So, if you start at 1.060, you might end up at 1.006. Likely a bad thing. I've got a light lager on tap right now that I added enzymes to (by design). It started at around 1.040. I don't remember where it ended, but it was low, but that's what I was hoping for. Now, if you made a stout that got stuck at 1.030, you might want to denature before it gets too low.

3. Not sure about kill parameters. It's probably some sort of exponential thing that indicates you never get 100%. Alcohol boils at 170-ish, so you might want to stay under that. But I think that's about where you need to be to get those enzymes to denature quickly. Also, I'd be concerned about cooking a lot of yeast that way, though that might not be a concern because I've seen others pastuerize beers with suspended yeast and I don't think it was an issue. I'd seriously consider filtering the yeast out and not worring about he enzymes (I have the filtering equipment already).

4a. If there is yeast in suspension, the enzymatic activity and fermentation will get started immediately.
4b. I'd use a hydrometer to know when to do that.

Bonus: I use 1 tsp per carboy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice; I also looked at that thread.

1. That might be my problem. I'll heat wrap it unless I get a definitive temp range than I'll sous vide it.

2. I do not want to stop the enzyme until it's done, so yeah I guess I don't have to do anything but shut up and wait. I am attempting to make an Imperial Kettle Sour, and I began with a really high OG (read: too high).

3. LBHS made some comment about hitting it with heat, but that might have been in reference to denaturing it. So, I'll just let it ride until it's done it's thing. I just wish I knew how long that'll take.

4a. There is yeast in the carboy, but I think it's too cold.
4b. Yup, didn't see any activity at all so I was thinking that it isn't doing anything.

*I also used 1tsp
 
Besides an optimal temperature, amylase has an optimal pH range, but it really like acidic, and if you're making a sour beer I'm sure it's quite acidic. I've made a bunch of them myself and remember the heartburn from them :)

TwistedGray said:
Thanks for the advice; I also looked at that thread.

1. That might be my problem. I'll heat wrap it unless I get a definitive temp range than I'll sous vide it.

2. I do not want to stop the enzyme until it's done, so yeah I guess I don't have to do anything but shut up and wait. I am attempting to make an Imperial Kettle Sour, and I began with a really high OG (read: too high).

3. LBHS made some comment about hitting it with heat, but that might have been in reference to denaturing it. So, I'll just let it ride until it's done it's thing. I just wish I knew how long that'll take.

4a. There is yeast in the carboy, but I think it's too cold.
4b. Yup, didn't see any activity at all so I was thinking that it isn't doing anything.

*I also used 1tsp
Click to expand...
 
passedpawn said:
Besides an optimal temperature, amylase has an optimal pH range, but it really like acidic, and if you're making a sour beer I'm sure it's quite acidic. I've made a bunch of them myself and remember the heartburn from them :)
Click to expand...

Oh, it's sour alright...but it's also like syrup right now :(

Correction - It's like Cherry Nyquil
 
TwistedGray said:
Oh, it's sour alright...but it's also like syrup right now :(

Correction - It's like Cherry Nyquil
Click to expand...

Oof, that's not good. Except for my berlinerwiess, I used the Roeselare blend from Wyeast on my sours. They came out quite dry and sour (and good) after 3 or 4 months (I thought they got worse after that, as they continued to dry out). Have you considered dumping something like that in there?
 
passedpawn said:
Oof, that's not good. Except for my berlinerwiess, I used the Roeselare blend from Wyeast on my sours. They came out quite dry and sour (and good) after 3 or 4 months (I thought they got worse after that, as they continued to dry out). Have you considered dumping something like that in there?
Click to expand...

I used OLY-605 to sour my berliner weisse (which is what mine is), so we're good on that. The problem was that I used far too much DME.
 
After four days it still hasn't moved at all, so I am wondering if I should sous vide it at a much higher temperature than the heater wrap can produce?
 
Have you considered adding a more aggressive yeast (such as Danstar Nottingham) to the fermenter?
 
My best guess is that with Nottingham it should have come down to about 1.035 to 1.040 for the FG.

At this juncture, and given the very high alcohol level of this recipe, you might consider the nuclear option of pitching 2 packs of Lallemand Champagne yeast. And let it ferment at 70 degrees F. Anything is better than prematurely tossing it out.

If the Champagne yeast drys it out too much, you can then consider back-sweetening it to taste using Splenda.
 
Last edited:
I would test two hypotheses I have for why fermentations stall, and neither of which would be helped by the AE alone:
1. I would add a reasonabe amount of nutrient e.g. Fermaid O or Fermaid K. It's known that yeast may stall even in the presence of simple sugar if there are no nitrogen sources available. Perhaps the bacteria removed some of the nutrients.
...If that doesn't help...
2. I would test some kill-factor positive wine yeast. I hypothesize that if the batch gets contaminated with a kill-factor positive yeast with low alcohol tolerance it may kill the pitched yeast but then die before finishing, or stall from lack of nutrients.
 
Amylase is generally added to the mash when a grist does not have a confidently high enough level of diastatic power to convert all of the starches into sugars. I've never considered using it to solve a stuck fermentation.
 
TwistedGray said:
OG: 1.166
Nottingham Ale - two packs
Currently: 1.100

It needs to come WAY down...I don't have a target gravity other than not what it is.
Click to expand...
It's been about 8 months now. What ended up happening with your beer? I think that is the highest homebrew OG I have ever seen, on top of that with a low pH sour wort I'm not surprised the yeast is struggling.
Was anything successful?
 
I've recently learned that yeast will start going dormant at about pH 3.1 or 3.2, and will be likely be fully dormant (if not outright dead) by about pH 2.8. Did you ever take a pH of your stalled wort? Perhaps the answer is (or given how long ago) "was" to add some baking soda to get the pH up to about 3.4-3.5, where the yeast will be (or would have been) a bit more happy to continue eating sugar.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
I've recently learned that yeast will start going dormant at about pH 3.1 or 3.2, and will be likely be fully dormant (if not outright dead) by about pH 2.8. Did you ever take a pH of your stalled wort? Perhaps the answer is (or given how long ago) "was" to add some baking soda to get the pH up to about 3.4-3.5, where the yeast will be (or would have been) a bit more happy to continue eating sugar.
Click to expand...
Higher pitch rates are generally suggested under 3.5, but I haven't personally had a problem with low-normal pitch rates.
In my own experience, ale yeast pitched into 3.0-3.2 wort has no trouble fermenting a normal gravity wort to completion. YMMV.

Also FYI, glucoamylase (Amylo 300) works perfectly fine at room temp and low pH in my experience. (Tested at pH 3.3, ~70°F)

The 1.166 OG is so high that even an 18% tolerant yeast will only knock it down to around 1.060 FG. It might be good though.
 

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