How to make liquid malt extract ?

[BrewingWisdom]

After successfully making my first beer (
Thread 'I finally made a beer from scratch' I finally made a beer from scratch)
now I am looking forward to expand my brewing craft by making my own liquid malt extract.The primary reason why I want to make my own LME is that I want to use it as a priming sugar for carbonation. I have heard carbonation from LME or DME gives a more natural touch to our beer. Plus to have a true beer I believe all our fermentable sugars should come from a grain.
@bracconiere @IslandLizard help a brother out .
Cheers

 

[pvtpublic]

All you do is boil your wort until you've concentrated down to a syrup consistency. That's how the commercially available LMEs are made, as well as maple syrup. It requires a lot of patience and diligence to achieve a good end result, in order to avoid scorching, carmelization, etc. Buying some LME or DME would work just the same, and save you a giant headache, especially if you're married.

Edit: True Beer(TM) is trademarked on HBT

 

[bracconiere]

i honestly don't know?


best guess?

Harvest Right™ | Home Freeze Dryers | Freeze Dried Food Storage Home Freeze Dryers

harvestright.com

didn't see one on daraz though?

 

[bracconiere]

All you do is boil your wort until you've concentrated down to a syrup consistency. That's how the commercially available LMEs are made, as well as maple syrup. It requires a lot of patience and diligence to achieve a good end result, in order to avoid scorching, carmelization, etc. Buying some LME or DME would work just the same, and save you a giant headache, especially if you're married.

he's in pakistan, maybe malt syrup as a sweetener would be available though?

 

[RM-MN]

You boil off the water to concentrate the wort. To keep it from scorching you change the boil temperature by boiling it in a vacuum and stirring it at the same time. If you don't have the right equipment for this, just buy some malt extract from someone who has the right equipment.

 

[pvtpublic]

he's in pakistan, maybe malt syrup as a sweetener would be available though?

Oops, didn't catch that.

 

[pvtpublic]

A gentle simmer would do it, stir a lot.

My method of making starter wort may help. I always adjust recipes to 70% efficiency, even though my efficiency is 80%. I run off 2 extra gallons from my mash into three separate containers. I take hydro reading from all three, and blend them to achieve my preboil gravity. The leftovers I adjust to 1040 and pressure can for later. Perhaps those leftovers could be put to use as a priming sugar?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Commercial DME / LME

[...] After lautering, the wort is gently vacuum evaporated [...]

(emphasis added; link)

 

[BrewingWisdom]

All you do is boil your wort until you've concentrated down to a syrup consistency. That's how the commercially available LMEs are made, as well as maple syrup. It requires a lot of patience and diligence to achieve a good end result, in order to avoid scorching, carmelization, etc. Buying some LME or DME would work just the same, and save you a giant headache, especially if you're married.

Edit: True Beer(TM) is trademarked on HBT

You boil off the water to concentrate the wort. To keep it from scorching you change the boil temperature by boiling it in a vacuum and stirring it at the same time. If you don't have the right equipment for this, just buy some malt extract from someone who has the right equipment.

But of course I have to put a little water so it dries up quickly into a syrup consistency?
Not the amount of water you put in for boiling our wort for brewing beer?
Also the final product should be super sweet in taste? I never tasted a LME in my life.

 

[pvtpublic]

But of course I have to put a little water so it dries up quickly into a syrup consistency?
Not the amount of water you put in for boiling our wort for brewing beer?
Also the final product should be super sweet in taste? I never tasted a LME in my life.

No, you wouldn't add water, just the opposite. You would have to heat it to evaporate the water out, concentrating it. You'll have to take a gravity reading before so you know how many gravity points your extract will have. That will be important in calculating how much to use as a priming sugar. Don't forget that you'll be adding flavor with this approach, so use a very light LME or the same wort to make your LME.

 

[pvtpublic]

Commercial DME / LME

(emphasis added; link)

Use a pressure canner with a vacuum cleaner attached!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Use a ...

 

[BrewingWisdom]

No, you wouldn't add water, just the opposite. You would have to heat it to evaporate the water out, concentrating it. You'll have to take a gravity reading before so you know how many gravity points your extract will have. That will be important in calculating how much to use as a priming sugar. Don't forget that you'll be adding flavor with this approach, so use a very light LME or the same wort to make your LME.

So to keep things simple I would love to use my previous batch volumes. How much water to add in 3kg malted wheat grain for mashing and at the end how much LME should I except?

 

[IslandLizard]

If you really think that it will make better tasting carbonated beer instead of using sugar for priming, look into a German method called kräusening:

The Oxford Companion to Beer Definition of Kräusening

Kräusening of The Oxford Companion to Beer definition presented by Craft Beer & Brewing

beerandbrewing.com

In short, you'd brew some extra wort when you make your batch, and you save that out. Then add it later to your finished beer for priming/carbonation.

 

[pvtpublic]

If you really think that it will make better tasting carbonated beer instead of using sugar for priming, look into a German method called kräusening:

The Oxford Companion to Beer Definition of Kräusening

Kräusening of The Oxford Companion to Beer definition presented by Craft Beer & Brewing

beerandbrewing.com

In short, you'd brew some extra wort when you make your batch, and you save that out. Then add it later to your finished beer for priming/carbonation.

Or even bottling before fermentation is complete. But both of these methods are a bit challenging to master without undercarbed bottles or bottle bombs.

 

[pvtpublic]

So to keep things simple I would love to use my previous batch volumes. How much water to add in 3kg malted wheat grain for mashing and at the end how much LME should I except?

Give me a bit to work this out. What size batches are you brewing? Also, what style? Different styles are best at different levels of carbonation, another factor in the calculations.

 

[pvtpublic]

Right back at ya bruv

 

[bracconiere]

If you really think that it will make better tasting carbonated beer instead of using sugar for priming, look into a German method called kräusening:

The Oxford Companion to Beer Definition of Kräusening

Kräusening of The Oxford Companion to Beer definition presented by Craft Beer & Brewing

beerandbrewing.com

In short, you'd brew some extra wort when you make your batch, and you save that out. Then add it later to your finished beer for priming/carbonation.

probably dissolve better too! good idea

 

[bracconiere]

@IslandLizard you forgot to make a shameless plug for brewer's friend on that post!

Gyle and Krausen Priming Calculator - Brewer's Friend

www.brewersfriend.com

 

[IslandLizard]

Or even bottling before fermentation is complete. But both of these methods are a bit challenging to master without undercarbed bottles or bottle bombs.

Bottling before fermentation has completed is indeed chancy, because you don't know exactly how many points are left to ferment.
On the other hand, kräusening is very predictable, you're fermenting the exact same wort as the main batch.

 

[BrewingWisdom]

Give me a bit to work this out. What size batches are you brewing? Also, what style? Different styles are best at different levels of carbonation, another factor in the calculations.

Last time I made a 100% wheat beer. That turned out to be successful and I really liked it. I want to brew it again the only difference is this time LME(last time I used jaggery) will be used as a primary sugar in a secondary fermentation bucket (last time I used bottles). The batch size is around 9 litres.
But an extra LME I can store later doesn't bother me. How long we can store LME?

 

[IslandLizard]

I want to brew it again the only difference is this time LME (last time I used jaggery) will be used as a primary sugar in a secondary fermentation bucket [...]

Your beer won't carbonate in a bucket.
Buckets won't seal and hold pressure.

But using a bucket as a "secondary" will cause oxidation of your beer, for that same reason.

 

[bracconiere]

Buckets won't seal and hold pressure.

a gamma lidded bucket will!

 

[IslandLizard]

Plus to have a true beer I believe all our fermentable sugars should come from a grain.

German Reinheitsgebot descendance?
That little bit of sugar, jaggery, honey, corn syrup, etc. you'd use for carbonation is not going to change the flavor all that much to make a difference. I'd challenge anyone to prove it does...

Especially at homebrew level, we stand to have much more process variation attributing change in flavor than 3.5 oz/100 g of any sugar (in a 5 gallon/19 liter batch) would cause.

 

[BrewingWisdom]

Your beer won't carbonate in a bucket.
Buckets won't seal and hold pressure.

But using a bucket as a "secondary" will cause oxidation of your beer, for that same reason.

a gamma lidded bucket will!

If thin plastic bottles for coke, pepsi etc can then why cant my think plastic fermenating bucket can hold a carbonation pressure. Also, I think the pressure is far more during primary fermentation when the airlock is bubbling like crazy , if during that stage my bucket didn't burst when why during a secondary one when most activity is done already.

 

[BrewingWisdom]

German Reinheitsgebot descendance?

Yes

 

[bracconiere]

If thin plastic bottles for coke, pepsi etc can then why cant my think plastic fermenating bucket can hold a carbonation pressure. Also, I think the pressure is far more during primary fermentation when the airlock is bubbling like crazy , if during that stage my bucket didn't burst when why during a secondary one when most activity is done already.

no, no, to get bubbles you only need like 2 psi if that...you need 12psi for cabonation! big difference, that kind of pressure would pop a normal bucket lid right off!

 

[bracconiere]

German Reinheitsgebot descendance?

ego, man, ego!

 

[DBhomebrew]

The soda bottle has a cap that seals. The bucket won't burst, nor will it hold the air pressure. The CO2 will escape at the joint between the bucket and lid. Your beer will be flat.

 

[bracconiere]

The bucket won't burst,

hey, i just said it'd pop the lid!

edit: i guess your right...i was thinking of instanteous 12psi......

 

[BrewingWisdom]

no, no, to get bubbles you only need like 2 psi if that...you need 12psi for cabonation! big difference, that kind of pressure would pop a normal bucket lid right off!

Last batch of mine used plastic bottles for coke, pepsi etc .Only one all glass bottle with a swing top for testing purposes. And that glass bottle passed the test with flying colours.

 

[BrewingWisdom]

ego, man, ego!

You need that much of an ego to successfully brew in this prohibited dry country with little resources

 

[IslandLizard]

hey, i just said it'd pop the lid!

edit: i guess your right...i was thinking of instanteous 12psi......

To flush/purge their headspace I've gently/slowly pressurized 6.5 gallon plastic brew buckets to 12-15 psi, bulging the lid quite a bit. I do keep both my hands on it while adding CO2 through the airlock hole.*

I noticed those Ropak plastic buckets/lids seem to seal quite well under that pressure. But may very well leak while CO2 is slowly being released when trying to naturally carbonate, or over time. Hard to predict whether it would work or not.

* Luckily, so far, none ever blew off during that procedure. But I bet it could make a mess or slap me in the face...

 

[bracconiere]

You need that much of an ego to successfully brew in this prohibited dry country with little resources

amen brother! that's exactly why i didn't even have a second thought about what you're trying to do!

i do think the brewer's friend calc and using some known wort will be the slickest bet.....

edit: i mean, just use LME dude...i'd be like *****! f off! (and for the record we have similar problems with meth here, if i didn't say that in the past...)

 

[bracconiere]

To flush/purge their headspace I've gently/slowly pressurized 6.5 gallon plastic brew buckets to 12-15 psi, bulging the lid quite a bit. I do keep both my hands on it while adding CO2 through the airlock hole.*

I noticed those Ropak plastic buckets/lids seem to seal quite well under that pressure. But may very well leak while CO2 is slowly being released when trying to naturally carbonate, or over time. Hard to predict whether it would work or not.

* Luckily, so far, none ever blew off during that procedure. But I bet it could make a mess or slap me in the face...

i know when i pressurize my kegs, i can hear the lid seal.....figured if it wasn't reverse sealing the way they are it'd pop a bucket lid....maybe not?

 

[IslandLizard]

i know when i pressurize my kegs, i can hear the lid seal.....figured if it wasn't reverse sealing the way they are it'd pop a bucket lid....maybe not?

Exactly!
The more pressure you'd put in the keg, the better the seal gets (there's a limit of course), as the lid is getting pressed into the rubber o-ring and that into the keg's flange.
There's no such mechanism with buckets. The lid simply will fly off at some point, and with a bang...

 

[bracconiere]

and with a bang

i'd imagine it as a loud

actually?

 

[bracconiere]

i just had a thought, you're a mod and we're both getting off topic!


so back on topic, how do you save the wort to carb with out of a batch? without it starting fermenting? freeze it?

 

[IslandLizard]

i'd imagine it as a loud

actually?

Maybe try it, outdoors though...

i just had a thought, you're a mod and we're both getting off topic!

It crossed my mind...
However, aren't we still exploring carbonation in a plastic bucket?

 

[bracconiere]

However, aren't we still exploring carbonation in a plastic bucket?

No, No! We Are Discussing the COOLEST way to carbonate!

honestly, with a gamma lid and some ball lock bulk heads, could be the new BIAB equivelent of a poor man's keg for a guy in pakistan!