How to lower PH in your mash.

[KyBeer]

When using an all grain recipe, Knowing your water profile and adjusting with salt to fit the beer style. If the mash Ph after 10 minutes is high, is there a calculator to tell me how much acid to add?

 

[jtratcliff]

I don't do pH adjustments... So I know nothing.... Don't listen to what I have to say...

That disclaimer out of the way, my understanding is, that if your mash pH is off after the start, it's pretty much already too late to do much about it. By the time everything has equilibrated to give you a steady pH, everything that you want to be affected by mash pH has already occurred. Take notes and adjust your additions for next time.

Calculators like Bru'n Water or Mash Made Easy should get pretty darn close. Then it's just a matter of tweaking until you get what you want....

 

[dmtaylor]

There are calculators, yes.

OR.....

You can just add a "glug" of vinegar. That's what I do -- cheap, easy, and it WORKS.

 

[hotbeer]

My tap water has high pH and high alkalinity. I've never tried to use it for beer. I just buy bottled water at the store, and it's already at the proper pH and alkalinity, so never have any of my sparges gone over the recommended pH level. Nor do I have to stockpile more things to complicate brew day.

There might one day be a certain beer that will require some adjustments to water chemistry, but for the ales and IPA's I'm doing right now, none seem to suffer from any lack of something in my water profile.

 

[marc1]

When using an all grain recipe, Knowing your water profile and adjusting with salt to fit the beer style. If the mash Ph after 10 minutes is high, is there a calculator to tell me how much acid to add?

The general consensus is that you do all of your additions (including acid or baking soda for pH) to your water before the mash. Once your mash is going it's more or less too late to fix. You can take your measurement and use it to inform future mash additions.
If you know what water you are starting with, the mash pH shouldn't be so far off that your beer will ruined. Even if you don't know what your water is, unless you are way outside of a normal range it probably won't ruin it. The pH would be more of an incremental improvement; although paying attention to water treatment in general could make huge improvements if your starting water is particularly terrible.

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes, use the calculators first then take good notes and adjust for the next time you brew that recipe. pH is important for great beer but not the end of the world if you miss it. Get to know your water and your pH adjustments will become easier as time goes on. Aim for pH 5.4 (sample cooled & measured at room temp).

 

[jerrylotto]

Lactic or phosphoric acid are better choices for pH adjustment than acetic (vinegar). I use phosphoric exclusively because it has no impact on flavor and being triprotic, a little goes a long way down.

 

[enkamania]

I'd wait longer than 10 minutes to measure ph.

 

[mabrungard]

You can just add a "glug" of vinegar. That's what I do -- cheap, easy, and it WORKS.

Really?? The fairly low taste threshold of vinegar makes it's use problematic in brewing....unless you're making Ode Bruin. Is that your style of choice?

 

[dmtaylor]

Really?? The fairly low taste threshold of vinegar makes it's use problematic in brewing....unless you're making Ode Bruin. Is that your style of choice?

I understand your hypothesis or concern….But in reality I have not tasted anything off when I use it. Maybe I have a sh*t palate.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I hate to say it but I've developed a sophisticated spread sheet that calculates everything for me so I'm so lazy because the beer always works and tasted good, one day someone will say like the op above how do you do this and I'll say "I don't know" isn't that crazy

 

[bwible]

I use the free water calculator Spreadsheet - EZ Water Calculator. You enter your water numbers and your grain bill. Then at the bottom you can put in your mineral adjustments. After your mineral adjustments (because they affect ph) It has places to put in lactic acid or oz of acid malt. I prefer to use acid malt because its easier to handle, just like any other grain. I brew 3 gallon batches and it usually takes less than 2 oz of acid malt. It says to use less than 3% acid malt, I think. I’m usually well under that.

I use the software. I don’t own a ph meter. I don’t buy ph test strips. I’ve been happy with the results.

https://ezwatercalculator.com/

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm a combo of a modified version of EZ and experience. I added more rows to the EZ options for malts and tweaked some of the numbers as well. That's my starting point.

Afterwards I adjust accordingly the next time I make that recipe or one similar enough to it. If EZ over or under shot the pH estimate by .1 compared to my meter reading, then I'll adjust my acid or baking soda additions accordingly for the next time and keep doing that afterwards.

I like the other calculators out there, but I've tweaked EZ enough over the years to my liking that I just keep going back to it. Otherwise I'm not sure I'd recommend it given that over the years the other options have become better.

 

[earachemyeye69]

My bottled water measured 8.4 pH and 74 TDS on the last batch. Added 1 gram ascorbic acid and 1.5 TBS 52 powder. Measured 5.4 10 mins into the mash. Yeah I know, 52 may not be the choice for many but whatever, 5.4 is ok

 

[bwible]

I'm a combo of a modified version of EZ and experience. I added more rows to the EZ options for malts and tweaked some of the numbers as well. That's my starting point.

Yeah that’s one issue. Trying to figure out how to classify some malts. Like where Cara-Pils goes, etc.

It’s a free spreadsheet but if you donate there may be an upgrade you would get, etc.

 

[brewbama]

I quit taking mash pH measurements because it’s always the same. 5.4 +/- .1. I use distilled water when I can get it and RO when I can’t.

I use Gordon Strong’s method with a couple modifications:

[1] Adjust brewing liquor: de-aerate with 1 gram per gallon each active dry yeast and sugar heated to 114°F for 20 min. After 20 min continue to heat to strike temp. Add 1/2 tsp hydrated Brewtan B to strike liquor at strike temp prior to mash in.
[2] Mash pH control: ONLY mash malts/grains that require it. DO NOT mash malts that don’t require it. (Dark Crystal and Roast malts.) They screw with pH. Hold Dark Crystal and Roast malts to Mash Out for a 30 min hot steep.
[3] Adjust Mash: use 50 ppm Ca (CaCl or Gypsum, or a combo of the two) to equal 50 ppm total Ca as a co-factor for the amylase enzymes and to help protect α-amylase at normal mashing temperatures. Also add 1 tsp (~3-4 grams) Ascorbic Acid as a stabilizer. Add adjustments direct to grain prior to adding to MLT prior adding brewhaus liquor.
[4] Mash process: Underlet mash, gently stir to ensure grain is wet with no dry pockets/dough balls, begin recirculation, install recirculation manifold/mash cap assembly.
[5] Once mash is complete, lauter to boil kettle from the bottom and cover with lauter cap until boiling.
[6] Add any other flavor or character salt additions to the boil targeting post boil volume concentration. Use calcium sulfate in English styles, calcium chloride in German, Czech, and Belgian styles, and a mix of the two in American styles. Avoid sulfates when using noble hops.

 

[balrog]

Take notes.
When you remake the same recipe the same way with the same grist from the same lots, you'll know what to expect and adjust slightly beforehand.
You can use all the calculators in the world, I feel like I have tried them all, and if you really really REALLY want to know what will happen, you have to do a test batch with **EXACTLY** the **SAME** grist.
One man's opinion. You're welcome. It's the interwebz.

 

[NeoBrew]

It’s definitely good to take notes and adjust for next time. I think giving up on a brew is for those who brew constantly though. If I’m going through the trouble of giving up a day to brew, I’m going to adjust even after the mash has started. At the very least it isn’t going to hurt. At best it might affect the mash. It should also have some affect on getting the final beer closer to the target PH.

I use the paid version of bru n water. I recommend it, although it doesn’t have a tool for fixing a mash that is off. I play with the numbers to get an estimate.

My acid of choice is phosphoric. I tried acid malt for a while and found it hard to predict the results.

 

[DuncB]

You can also use the calculators and then work in some acidulated malt instead of lactic / phosporic.

If you can't get any of those you could do an acid rest in the mash but it will add some time to your mash schedule.

 

[bwible]

I quit taking mash pH measurements because it’s always the same. 5.4 +/- .1. I use distilled water when I can get it and RO when I can’t.

I use Gordon Strong’s method with a couple modifications:

[1] Adjust brewing liquor: de-aerate with 1 gram per gallon each active dry yeast and sugar heated to 114°F for 20 min. After 20 min continue to heat to strike temp. Add 1/2 tsp hydrated Brewtan B to strike liquor at strike temp prior to mash in.
[2] Mash pH control: ONLY mash malts/grains that require it. DO NOT mash malts that don’t require it. (Dark Crystal and Roast malts.) They screw with pH. Hold Dark Crystal and Roast malts to Mash Out for a 30 min hot steep.
[3] Adjust Mash: use 50 ppm Ca (CaCl or Gypsum, or a combo of the two) to equal 50 ppm total Ca as a co-factor for the amylase enzymes and to help protect α-amylase at normal mashing temperatures. Also add 1 tsp (~3-4 grams) Ascorbic Acid as a stabilizer. Add adjustments direct to grain prior to adding to MLT prior adding brewhaus liquor.
[4] Mash process: Underlet mash, gently stir to ensure grain is wet with no dry pockets/dough balls, begin recirculation, install recirculation manifold/mash cap assembly.
[5] Once mash is complete, lauter to boil kettle from the bottom and cover with lauter cap until boiling.
[6] Add any other flavor or character salt additions to the boil targeting post boil volume concentration. Use calcium sulfate in English styles, calcium chloride in German, Czech, and Belgian styles, and a mix of the two in American styles. Avoid sulfates when using noble hops.

I know the name and certainly respect Mr. Strong but this post has me scratching my head.

I know he has SOME recipes where he says hold dark grains til the end, but not all.

Isn’t it true that dark grains will lower ph whenever you add them? Whether that is at the start of the mash or 20 min at the end? If you start with a high ph mash water and no dark grains and lower it with acid and then mash without dark grains then add dark grains at the end, aren’t the dark grains still going to lower the ph even further? Its true we’re trying to optimize ph for conversion. Assuming you add the dark grains after conversion - what does that large ph drop from dark grains at the end do to flavor when ph is significantly too low? Assuming we’re not making a kettle sour.

You also say adjust with either CaCl2 or CaSo4 at the beginning to get 50 Ca with no baseline or reference to what Cl and SO4 levels are in your starting water and then say to adjust those salt additions again in the boil. There is interplay between Cl and SO4 levels that must be taken into account.

Avoid SO4 with noble hops is not the thing. Avoid SO4 with lagers and malty beers. Most of the time you find noble hops in lagers and malty beers.

 

[brewbama]

I don’t know what to tell you my friend. I have been brewing this way for over a year now without fail (I began Feb ‘21 and have brewed over a dozen batches since). I used to take pH readings every 20 min when I first began using his processes but quit because they’re always the same.

As I said before, I use distilled or RO water. IOW, zero (or very near zero) TDS. After the mash is complete I add dark grains for the color/flavor contribution they offer. I have never had a sour beer from this process or I’d quit doing it. (I can’t stand sour beers).

After the mash is complete pH is much less of a concern to me. But, last week someone asked so just for giggles I took a pH sample at the end of the mash heading to the BK. Once again, as always, it was 5.4. Granted it was Golden Promise, Golden Naked Oats in the main mash and Double Roasted Crystal added late for a 30 min Mash Out/Hot Steep so not exactly the darkest of roast but what can I say. It works as advertised every time. The keg of Stout I just kicked was excellent and definitely not sour. The Scottish 80/- I am drinking now is not sour. My Christmas Bock, also definitely not sour, was also a great beer. My Porter this past Fall … well, you get the idea. (Again, I can’t stand sour beers).

I concede not using gypsum with malty beers. Again, In the boil, I use calcium sulfate in English styles, calcium chloride in German, Czech, and Belgian styles, and a mix of the two in American styles. However, when I brew lagers they may or may not contain noble hops. I do enjoy a hoppy lager from time to time. So, I just say avoid gypsum with noble hops and that covers me.

 

[jdauria]

I don’t know what to tell you my friend. I have been brewing this way for over a year now without fail (I began Feb ‘21 and have brewed over a dozen batches since). I used to take pH readings every 20 min when I first began using his processes but quit because they’re always the same.

As I said before, I use distilled or RO water. IOW, zero (or very near zero) TDS. After the mash is complete I add dark grains for the color/flavor contribution they offer. I have never had a sour beer from this process or I’d quit doing it. (I can’t stand sour beers).

After the mash is complete pH is much less of a concern to me. But, last week someone asked so just for giggles I took a pH sample at the end of the mash heading to the BK. Once again, as always, it was 5.4.

Just curious, what pH meter are you using and is it calibrated? Mash pH should drop during the mash, on average at least 0.2 points from early mash reading to end of mash. Furthermore, by end of boil it should drop on average another 0.3 points, and then after fermentation another 0.5. That's the normal course of pH to get down to the finished beer range of 4.0-4.6 for pH. Also seems weird that a 5.4 pH of just light grains early mash and end of mash with dark grains included are exactly the same.

BTW, love the Gordon Strong/LoDo process mix.

 

[brewbama]

Over a series of half a dozen + brews days, using the same grist, milled at the same gap, same water ratio, same strike vol, mineral additions, pump flow setting, etc, I took samples at 20 minute intervals throughout the entire mash. I noticed very little pH change over the entire mash. Samples were cooled to room temp (actual data from one of those brewdays below), which is well within the margin of error given the MW101 pH meter and loose nut between the chair and meter. I calibrated it prior to each brewday.

When graphed, the data from that series overlaid upon each other are nearly indistinguishable one from another. Very consistent results.

As a side note, over that series, I noticed most of the SG increase takes place within 20 min. @152*F. ...but I measured additional SG increase to about the 100 min mark. Past the 100 min mark the SG did rise but very very little.

20 min 1.045, 5.47 pH, 65% of OG
40 min 1.056, 5.47 pH, + 11 points, 81% of OG (+16%)
60 min 1.060, 5.50 pH, + 4 points, 86% of OG (+5%)
80 min 1.065, 5.44 pH, + 5 points, 94% of OG (+8%)
90 min 1.069, 5.46 pH, + 4 points, (+6%)

I know this doesn’t fit the mold of what I’ve read and been told. But it is what I observed myself on my system in my brewery over several brewdays.