How to lay tile for keezer countertop?

[PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]

I've reached the point in my coffin keezer build where I am ready to lay tile. I have a 1/2 inch piece of ply as my lid, supported by a 2x4 frame.

I know absolutely nothing about laying tile - how do I seal the ply? Grout? Epoxy? Something else?

Thanks!

 

[hio3791]

I am not a tile installer or expert but I did tile my kitchen floor last year and I did a lot of research.

Are you tiling directly onto the ply which will become your keezer lid? If so, you should look into using a modified thinset. Wood absorbs moisture, but you need moisture for the thinset to cure. Ideally, you wouldn't be tiling over wood, you would be tiling over cement board/hardiboard, cement, ditra, etc., but this is a special application. As for grouting, since you are tiling over wood, look to find something that's flexible, otherwise, as the wood contracts/expands, it'll crack the grout.

If there's no insulation between the keezer and the ply, your ply will be subject to cold temps causing it to shrink which can lead to cracked grout lines.

Also consider that tile is very heavy. 1/2" ply may not support the weight, not to mention, you'll have one heavy lid. But then again, this is a small application so who knows!

Don't sweat tiling (figure of speech really)! I did my kitchen floor, on a diagonal. It was my first time tiling. It was hard, back breaking work but the end result is beautiful.

 

[RuggerMatt]

What are the dimensions of the top? Is the plywood braced in the middle, or is it just attached to the perimeter of the frame? If there is any "flexibility" in the top/plywood, you'll watch your tile work turn to ****: grout will crack, tiles will pop, it will be anarchy!

The "best way" to do it is add a layer of cement backer board on top of the plywood (either cement board or Hardibacker (my preference)) with some thinset. It will create a strong bond and keep everything from flexing (just make sure your cement board is fastened tightly to the plywood. Screws every 4-6 inches).

 

[PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]

The top is roughly 50" wide by 36" deep. It's a BIG keezer.

The frame is a 2x4 perimeter with two 2x4's running across the lid. This is bolted on to the factory lid, so it should not get cold. The lid is what seals the keezer. The sheet of ply is laid on top of this frame and screwed in tight.

I will add a sheet of 1/4" hardibacker. Do I use thinset over the ply, then backer board, then tile? Anything special to attach the tile to the backer board?

Does the wood trim around the edge need backboard underneath it as well? I was planning on using 1x4's around the perimeter, then tile inside the trim.

 

[GHBWNY]

I subcontract for a kitchen and bath company. We do complete installations, including flooring. A product they have been selling a lot of is Armstrong "Alterna". It is a semi-rigid vinyl-based tile product that has a close appearance and feel of ceramic tile, but without the weight, thinset, wetsaw, mess, etc.. It cuts with a straight-edge and utility knife: score and snap. It glues (A's proprietary adhesive) down to most sturdy, clean surfaces. We have put it directly over subfloor, underlayment, concrete. And because it is slightly flexible, will conform to slight inconsistencies in the levelness of the surface. It can be grouted (with A's proprietary grout) or butted. Comes in several sizes; we have used 12", 16" and 20", but it might also be available in 8". It is water-resistant, but I think something hot would scorch it. It's pricier than ceramic tile, but to me, worth it for the ease of installation. It's a very cool product and looks great.

You're on the right track above, but your lid is going to weight a TON! Plus, if you accidently drop it shut, it's a good chance you're going to knock something loose or break it.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

The top is roughly 50" wide by 36" deep. It's a BIG keezer.

The frame is a 2x4 perimeter with two 2x4's running across the lid. This is bolted on to the factory lid, so it should not get cold. The lid is what seals the keezer. The sheet of ply is laid on top of this frame and screwed in tight.

I will add a sheet of 1/4" hardibacker. Do I use thinset over the ply, then backer board, then tile? Anything special to attach the tile to the backer board?

Does the wood trim around the edge need backboard underneath it as well? I was planning on using 1x4's around the perimeter, then tile inside the trim.

Use thinset and lots of screws (this could be an issue with 1/2" ply + 1/8" thinset plus 1/4" backerboard = 3/4" screws MAX). If you can find it locally, get a true 4' x 8' sheet as there will be no seams but likely you will 3' x 5' sheets so if you are more than an inch over that on your depth use two sheets. The better back boards have the screw pattern (for vertical) applications marked right on them with X's...even though you are installing horizontally, use that pattern.

Usually you want to use an 1/8" notch trowel on 1/4" backer board but check the spec's for whatever you buy.

Tiling is fun and easy if you get your layout right, but I second the notion that some of the new style vinyl tile might be a better solution here. Many of them look amazing and since the area covered is so small, the premium price is less an issue.

 

[RuggerMatt]

+1 to Onkel. That is a big keezer! That lid is going to have to weight to it. As for attaching the backboard to plywood, you can use some construction adhesive (loc-tite would be sufficient), then screw. Make sure you buy the correct screw length for the backerboard thickness (the product literally tells you what to buy). On one side of the board, it has a grid (1 in blocks) and shows where to place the screws. Then thinset, use a notched trowel, and set the tile. What type of tile are you setting (will determine if you need to backbutter or not)?

Also, is your frame off-set enough to allow for everything to be flush, or are you going to have to add trim now to account for the extra material thickness?

A few points on safety: the hinge on the door will not be able to hold up that weight. I would look at adding in some pneumatic hinges and/or a lid support (think how you keep the hood of your car up). Crushed to death by a 80# keezer lid would not be my ideal way to go (or you drop the lid and everything cracks). Also, a lid support will help you keep it propped open so you can add/remove kegs. It's pretty risky trying to manipulate kegs while holding that lid open with one hand.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

+1 to Onkel. As for attaching the backboard to plywood, you can use some construction adhesive (loc-tite would be sufficient), then screw.

In this application with thin plywood and thin backerboard I would not suggest construction adhesive unless you use the bulk can and comb it like old vinyl floor adhesive. you want as close to 100% coverage and contact as possible to make the backer and plywood one unit. If you do go that route, particularly with construction adhesive like liquid nails, the two pieces need to squished together, then plied apart for about a minute for the best bond.

 

[PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]

Thanks for the info. I am planning on either gas struts or a support stick.

I have not selected tile yet but will look into back butter. Heading to buy supplies this afternoon.

Just so I have this right...

Ply -> Thinset and screws -> hardibacker -> Thinset -> tile?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I have not selected tile yet but will look into back butter.

Ply -> Thinset and screws -> hardibacker -> Thinset -> tile?

Back buttering is a technique required (normally) only for large or irregular tile...not a type of tile

Ply -> Thinset -> hardibacker -> Screws -> Thinset -> tile-> grout

 

[purplehaze]

PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus, what you need for that tile job is BONDERA. I used it a couple of times, its simple to apply and its perfect for your first time tiling. Its basically a sheet of contact adhesive made for tile.

I would agree with others and use 3/4" plywood as a base

For some pics of the install see my third keezer build, post #12. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f252/third-keezer-422078/