How to increase my efficiency

[jlatenight]

Looking for some good tips from the pros. I've done a few all grain batches so far and I'm wondering what some suggestions are to help increase my mash efficiency. My pre-boil gravity is consistently lower than what Beersmith says it should be. I think I'm getting like 64% efficiency or something around there. I'm thinking the issue is with my sparge. After the hour mash rest, I vorlauf a bunch of times, then drain the mash tun. I then simply drain the remaining amount of mash water (at mash-out temp) into the mash tun via hose kinda stuck into the mash. When that's done draining I mix again with my mash paddle, vorlauf and drain again. Would I get better efficiency if I didn't stir a second time? Maybe I should figure out a way to "diffuse" the water over the mash more (like fly-sparging) so I'm rinsing the grain bed from top to bottom? What do you guys think?

 

[BBL_Brewer]

You definitely want to stir the mash like a mad man when you're batch sparging. Then let it sit for 5-15 minutes before you vorlauf and drain. And contrary to popular belief, I get better efficiency if I drain slowly. Make sure you have a good crush, that makes a difference. If you mill your own grain, run it through twice and see if that helps.

 

[revco]

I would probably suggest you read the stickies and the countless posts on efficiency, particularly this one and this one. Considering you don't mention your crush or other factors that have a LOT to do with efficiency, I'm wondering if you are familiar with the common issues?

You definitely want to stir the sparge, you will take a big hit and have channeled grain with your method if you don't...that is, unless you pursue a proper fly sparge setup.

Also, you can always add a pound or two of additional grain to get up to your OG's with a less efficient system. Relatively cheap fix, technically, especially if you buy your base malt in bulk.

 

[jlatenight]

Thanks BBL, Yeah I shoulda searched better before posting that 'cause the general consensus seems to be the more you stir during the batch sparge, the better the efficiency. Next time I'm gonna stir the crap out of it. And I'm also going to drain a lot slower too, also slower during vorlauf.

 

[Denny]

Once you have the sparge water thoroughly stirred in, more stirring does no good. Draining slowly during batch sparging will not increase your efficiency...that's counter to the theory of what makes batch sparging work. 90% of the time poor efficiency is caused by a poor crush. THAT'S the first place to look.

 

[Rev2010]

I then simply drain the remaining amount of mash water (at mash-out temp) into the mash tun via hose kinda stuck into the mash.

What does this mean exactly? Sorry, I just don't quite get what you mean by remaining mash water (do you mean sparge water) and what this whole hose stuck in the mash business? I've not once heard this so I apologize if I am misreading.

Are you batch sparging? If so I don't know why you are sticking a hose in the mash grains. If you are fly sparging sticking a hose into the grain is also the incorrect way to do it. I agree with Denny that crush is the first place to look but your wording is a bit alarming as I've never read anyone doing this and I believe this might be where the problem lies primarily, again unless I'm simply reading it wrong. Anyhow, please go into more detail on your sparging process and we can likely help answer the question better, or at least I'd be able to lend my answer easier


Rev.

 

[jlatenight]

What does this mean exactly? Sorry, I just don't quite get what you mean by remaining mash water (do you mean sparge water) and what this whole hose stuck in the mash business? I've not once heard this so I apologize if I am misreading. Rev.

I use a chest-type cooler mash tun and next to it is my keggle on a banjo burner. Yes I'm batch sparging and what I meant to say was I drain the mash tun, then add the sparge water (usually the rest of the contents of the keggle) via a short piece of hose going into the cooler. I didn't mean I stick it into the mash necessarily, just drain it, disconnect the hose and stir the mash.

I'm using a "maltmill" by JSP that has a fixed gap of .045" according to their web site. It appears to be doing a fine job of crushing all the husks...

 

[Denny]

I'm using a "maltmill" by JSP that has a fixed gap of .045" according to their web site. It appears to be doing a fine job of crushing all the husks...

I use a MaltMill also, but the adjustable one. I use a MUCH tighter gap and average 83-85% batch sparging. Try running it through the mil twice next time. At the very least, that will either confirm or eliminate crush as a variable.

 

[Rev2010]

I didn't mean I stick it into the mash necessarily, just drain it, disconnect the hose and stir the mash.

I'm using a "maltmill" by JSP that has a fixed gap of .045" according to their web site. It appears to be doing a fine job of crushing all the husks...

Aaaah ok, thanks for clearing that up. My Barley Crusher came with a .031 gap and I adjusted it tighter, though I can't recall the setting I set it to I think it was like .027 or something around there, maybe .025... just can't recall. Outside of my latest Weizenbock (another thread running about that scenario) I run an almost constant 81% efficiency per batch. It's kinda eerie hitting the numbers exact each time


Rev.

 

[jlatenight]

Thanks for the posts guys. The first thing I'm going to try is running my grist through the mill twice. I'll report back here next time I brew, probably in a couple weeks.

 

[mikescooling]

Have you checked your temp probe? If that's off it will Jack everything up!!

 

[Stauffbier]

I think a lot of people like to blame the crush, but in my opinion a large amount of efficiency issues have to do with improper water volumes...

 

[jlatenight]

Thought I'd report back. I've done a couple batches and I've been hitting my numbers consistantly now. I checked all my thermometers, like 5 or 6, digital and analog, and they were all off a degree or two from each other. The main change was I now stir like a bastard for a while before I vorlauf the first time and then again when I spare. I think that was the problem. Thanks all!

 

[diS]

I noticed bump in efficiency on my HERMS if I stir after 30 minutes of mashing. I takes 15-20 minutes for wort to clear again so perhaps I could stir every 20 minutes.. but I'm too lazy for that.

 

[MVKTR2]

Thought I'd report back. I've done a couple batches and I've been hitting my numbers consistantly now. I checked all my thermometers, like 5 or 6, digital and analog, and they were all off a degree or two from each other. The main change was I now stir like a bastard for a while before I vorlauf the first time and then again when I spare. I think that was the problem. Thanks all!

I love a happy ending!

 

[natefrog255]

I think a lot of people like to blame the crush, but in my opinion a large amount of efficiency issues have to do with improper water volumes...

So I went to brew a Strong Scotch Ale and the target OG was 1.085. I ended up with 1.067 and came to about a 65% brewhouse. I don't think my crush is bad, but we'll see what others think. I have an adjustable MaltMill.

1. Had about 16# grain, crushed through Malt Mill.
2. Mashed for 90 minutes and temp held strong around 150-155 degrees.
3. I have the plastic paddle, not a dowel or stainless steel nice one. This could be a problem.
4. I stirred every 15-20 minutes, not vigorous.
5. Drained and then batch sparged for 20-25 minutes, stirred initially and that is it...drained.
6. My pre-boil amount was 7.5G at 1.060 (actually had 8.5g & left 1G). Target boil amount was just under 7G.
7. Boiled for 60 minutes and ended up with Batch size if 6G, which is about 0.5G above target.

So my first issue was definitely used too much water. But do you see any other issues? Would too much water alone cost me 10% efficiency? My goal is to be in that 75% range. My calculations have me at 65%.

Maybe need to get a better mash paddle too. Malt Mill I thought was at credit card depth, will re-calibrate to see.

 

[Denny]

So I went to brew a Strong Scotch Ale and the target OG was 1.085. I ended up with 1.067 and came to about a 65% brewhouse. I don't think my crush is bad, but we'll see what others think. I have an adjustable MaltMill.

1. Had about 16# grain, crushed through Malt Mill.
2. Mashed for 90 minutes and temp held strong around 150-155 degrees.
3. I have the plastic paddle, not a dowel or stainless steel nice one. This could be a problem.
4. I stirred every 15-20 minutes, not vigorous.
5. Drained and then batch sparged for 20-25 minutes, stirred initially and that is it...drained.
6. My pre-boil amount was 7.5G at 1.060 (actually had 8.5g & left 1G). Target boil amount was just under 7G.
7. Boiled for 60 minutes and ended up with Batch size if 6G, which is about 0.5G above target.

So my first issue was definitely used too much water. But do you see any other issues? Would too much water alone cost me 10% efficiency? My goal is to be in that 75% range. My calculations have me at 65%.

Maybe need to get a better mash paddle too. Malt Mill I thought was at credit card depth, will re-calibrate to see.

Leaving behind that gal. of wort likely had a lot to do with it. Other thoughts, although not necessarily affecting efficiency....don't stir the mash. If you stir thoroughly when you mash in, it isn't necessary and you'll lose heat. Also, your sparge took a long time. For that amount of wort, it takes me maybe 12-15 min.

 

[Stauffbier]

Yeah, your efficiency was likely off, because you used way too much water. I agree with Denny regarding stirring. Stir once, close it up, and leave it alone. I don't think a long batch sparge hurts, but it doesn't help either.

 

[Denny]

Yeah, your efficiency was likely off, because you used way too much water. I agree with Denny regarding stirring. Stir once, close it up, and leave it alone. I don't think a long batch sparge hurts, but it doesn't help either.

Agreed, no harm but you're wasting your time

 

[natefrog255]

I generally do a 15-20 minute sparge but ran into a different issue. Thanks for feedback. I do think the water was a big factor and going forward will try to be more closer to mash calc. I did adjust my malt mill to do a finer crush, so hoping that should help.

So you're saying when I start the mash, stir good right away and don't touch for the 60 or 90 minutes? Only reason I stir is to prevent cold spots. But I'd love to not touch it, frees time for other things.

 

[grevengrevs]

As others have said, grain crush. Getting my own mill really helped a lot!

 

[Denny]

So you're saying when I start the mash, stir good right away and don't touch for the 60 or 90 minutes? Only reason I stir is to prevent cold spots. But I'd love to not touch it, frees time for other things.

If you stir well, there will be few if any hot or cold spots. If it's any comfort to you, I've done it that way for 478 batches. I usually get at or near 100% conversion efficiency and mid 80s brewhouse efficiency.