How to heat a jacketed conical

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

BrewinSoldier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
51
Hey guys! I recently purchased a Brewers hardware jacketed 8 gallon conical. I haven't got to put it to use yet and am still using the ssbrewtech. I love everything about the ssbrewtech except for the pressure rating. When I try to do a pressurized transfer, it starts blowing co2 out of the lid seal at only 1-1.5psi, which doesn't give me enough pressure to transfer with it blowing out. I wish that they would redesign it to be able to hold at least 8-10 psi. I love how light it is, the ability to cool with my glycol chiller, plus be able to heat, and the sample valve. All pros in my book.

The Brewers hardware conical is rated to 15psi which is perfect, but it is a jacketed conical which is perfect for cooling withy glycol system, but I have no way of heating it. I don't want to have to run my house heater(which house stays at 65-66) just to keep the one room warm enough for the fermenters. Obviously in summer it's not a problem.

Any ideas on how to heat a jacketed conical would be greatly appreciated, without having to heat the room. I know I could buy an electric heater with digital thermostat, but with electricity prices where I live at .40¢ per kWh, I would like a lower electricity using option.

I don't think a fermwrap or similar will work because of the thick jacket, plus it would kind of defeat the purpose of the glycol since it would have to warm that too before warming the wort.

My only other idea is to be able to run some kind of low wattage 1.5" trip clamp heating element down through one of the unused triclamp fittings in the top. I just can't find any other than the ones made for heating and boiling wort. It also has to be able to be ran off 12v so my ssbrewtech controller can control it.
 
OP
B

BrewinSoldier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
51
After looking around a bit, maybe something like this would work.

http://waterstoragecanada.com/shop/...steel-heating-element-with-1-inch-npt-flange/

With this tri clamp

https://www.brewershardware.com/1_5-Tri-Clover-X-1-Female-NPT.html?category_id=271

I just have to make sure the threads are the same and I'd need it to be a lot longer heating element. Probably in the 15-17" range. Then I could just solder the wire to one of these so it would plug right into the heating port of the ssbrewtech controller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-10x-5-5...575742?hash=item3f5b2c64fe:g:7yEAAOSwCypWodsj

I guess the other option is to find a 110v version and just use a separate temp probe and controller but that just seems like way too much extra stuff vs integrating something in the the ssbrewtech controller.
 

augiedoggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
10,284
Reaction score
2,278
Location
North Tonawanda NY
Hey guys! I recently purchased a Brewers hardware jacketed 8 gallon conical. I haven't got to put it to use yet and am still using the ssbrewtech. I love everything about the ssbrewtech except for the pressure rating. When I try to do a pressurized transfer, it starts blowing co2 out of the lid seal at only 1-1.5psi, which doesn't give me enough pressure to transfer with it blowing out. I wish that they would redesign it to be able to hold at least 8-10 psi. I love how light it is, the ability to cool with my glycol chiller, plus be able to heat, and the sample valve. All pros in my book.

The Brewers hardware conical is rated to 15psi which is perfect, but it is a jacketed conical which is perfect for cooling withy glycol system, but I have no way of heating it. I don't want to have to run my house heater(which house stays at 65-66) just to keep the one room warm enough for the fermenters. Obviously in summer it's not a problem.

Any ideas on how to heat a jacketed conical would be greatly appreciated, without having to heat the room. I know I could buy an electric heater with digital thermostat, but with electricity prices where I live at .40¢ per kWh, I would like a lower electricity using option.

I don't think a fermwrap or similar will work because of the thick jacket, plus it would kind of defeat the purpose of the glycol since it would have to warm that too before warming the wort.

My only other idea is to be able to run some kind of low wattage 1.5" trip clamp heating element down through one of the unused triclamp fittings in the top. I just can't find any other than the ones made for heating and boiling wort. It also has to be able to be ran off 12v so my ssbrewtech controller can control it.
I recently acquired a chiller with no reservoir but instead what looks like a cooling coil for the liquid to travel through and the last section of it have a built in heater which is designed to work kind of like a rims only the whole thing heats or cools the liquid to a precise temp on the fly.... may look at something like that to control your glycol mixture... or just use a heating strip ontop of your jacket to control temps that way..

Your heater does not have to be 12v either... just use the 12v in the ss brewing stc 1000 clone to switch a 12v coil relay that switches some other voltage... Thats what I do. my control box runs off 240v but my heater strips and soleniod relays are 24v and they are wired to $4 dual pole relays which I use to open the 24v valves and turn on the 240v chiller pump simultaneously
 

dthompson79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
147
Reaction score
46
Is the bottom of the cone jacketed too? If it isn't you could heat wrap there. Similar to SSbrewtech's set up.

Or put a largish aquarium heater in your glycol bath. I imagine the heat up time and hysteresis would be fairly large thoough
 

DasBierBaron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
99
Reaction score
16
Are you looking to heat and cool at the same time? If it's just heating, what about a bucket heater, pump, and cooler filled with water?
 
OP
B

BrewinSoldier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
51
Is the bottom of the cone jacketed too? If it isn't you could heat wrap there. Similar to SSbrewtech's set up.

Or put a largish aquarium heater in your glycol bath. I imagine the heat up time and hysteresis would be fairly large thoough
I called and asked and they said only half of it is, which means the heat wrap wouldn't work because it would be just heating the Trub.

Only problem is I'm trying to get it to where I have both heating and cooling so I need two separate things.

Are you looking to heat and cool at the same time? If it's just heating, what about a bucket heater, pump, and cooler filled with water?
Yup trying to do both. That's why I think my only option is to throw some kind of heater down in there through an open tri clamp fitting.
 

dthompson79

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
147
Reaction score
46
Well if you would look at SSbrewtech this is how they do it. I don't have it so I couldn't comment as to how effective it is but you will get convection just heating the bottom. Maybe someone with their heating cooling package can comment.
 

JohnnyBe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
49
Reaction score
4
Location
Castle Rock
I know this is an old thread, but I've been toying with the idea of how to accomplish this as well. So far I've come up with the idea of creating a manifold for the glycol to go through on both the input and output side of the conical. Then on the manifold I'll have two motorized ball valves. One set will loop back to my chiller and the other set will loop to a cooler filled with glycol. In the cooler I'll have an aquarium heater, which will heat the glycol to "x" temperature controlled by an STC1000. I'm hoping that when I switch between heating to cooling the load won't overpower my chiller, but since my 20 gallon jackets doesn't hold a lot of glycol I believe it shouldn't be an issue. I don't foresee the need to heat 90% of the time, but will need to do so when making styles such as Gose, doing diacetyl rests, etc. As I continue to work through the setup I'll try to remember to post the results.
 

augiedoggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
10,284
Reaction score
2,278
Location
North Tonawanda NY
you could get a super ULWD long stainless cartridge heater rod and install in into the lid with a compression fitting so it dips down into the beer like a temp probe , they make very low power and low density versions that wont be hurt at all if some is not submerged in liquid.
 

daveerickson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
48
Reaction score
15
you could get a super ULWD long stainless cartridge heater rod and install in into the lid with a compression fitting so it dips down into the beer like a temp probe , they make very low power and low density versions that wont be hurt at all if some is not submerged in liquid.
By chance do you have a link to such an element? In my research I can find the Dernord hot rod replacement elements, but nothing in the 15" - 20" that can handle running exposed to air. It seems like such an elegant solution vs heating another vessel and alternating the supply to the jacket.
 

Tom R

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
343
Reaction score
270
Location
S. Puget Sound
If you're just running one jacketed conical (like me), you can easily heat the glycol with an immersion heater. I use a 500W Dernord, which is plenty. Have the same Inkbird that runs the glycol reservoir turn it on when needed. No valves, no manifolds required.

It's been working for over two years in my brewery.
 

augiedoggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
10,284
Reaction score
2,278
Location
North Tonawanda NY
I dont have a link. currently im still using a silicone heat strip wrapped around my conicals for heating which works so well I havent changed anything. at the brewpub I use the heat cords designed for melting ice in gutters
 

daveerickson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
48
Reaction score
15
If you're just running one jacketed conical (like me), you can easily heat the glycol with an immersion heater. I use a 500W Dernord, which is plenty. Have the same Inkbird that runs the glycol reservoir turn it on when needed. No valves, no manifolds required.

It's been working for over two years in my brewery.
I currently have only one, so that is a viable option for now. I appreciate the confirmation that it continues to work well. 'Someday' in the future I think I'll make use of 2, so I keep tabs on what has worked for others.
 

daveerickson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
48
Reaction score
15
I dont have a link. currently im still using a silicone heat strip wrapped around my conicals for heating which works so well I havent changed anything. at the brewpub I use the heat cords designed for melting ice in gutters
Thank you for the feedback. I like the simplicity of a heat strip/cord, but I was under the impression that the Brewers Hardware jacketed tanks are insulated enough this would be a challenge. I would love to know if you have this working with a jacketed tank.

While it's more complex than I prefer, a think coolstix hooked up to a hot reservoir would work. But, I am drawn to the idea of a long (I measured, and have about 20" from top port to sidewall) cartridge heater. I'm supposing something in the 50-100W range would suffice, and what I'm finding is either much shorter (about 4") or enough wattage to boil.
 

augiedoggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
10,284
Reaction score
2,278
Location
North Tonawanda NY
Thank you for the feedback. I like the simplicity of a heat strip/cord, but I was under the impression that the Brewers Hardware jacketed tanks are insulated enough this would be a challenge. I would love to know if you have this working with a jacketed tank.

While it's more complex than I prefer, a think coolstix hooked up to a hot reservoir would work. But, I am drawn to the idea of a long (I measured, and have about 20" from top port to sidewall) cartridge heater. I'm supposing something in the 50-100W range would suffice, and what I'm finding is either much shorter (about 4") or enough wattage to boil.
Your correct the jackets on the better conicals are insulated.. i dont belive the cone area is insulated at all on the BW conical so you might be able to put a heat pad there which would be better anyway. We re not yet using our insulated jacketed 3 bbl conicals because covid has put a huge delay in our renovation plans and they wont fit in our current brewery space.

a third option is using somthing like a cartridge heater with a PWM controller in addition to temp control which will effectively limit the max power to the element. I do this on my rims to take one of the 6000w ULWD elements down to 4500w it limits the amount of time in seconds that the element can consecutively be powered up and therefore prevents the surface from becoming as hot. in the case of my rims it prevents localized boiling or any baked buildup on the element surface as well as helping with preventing denatured enzymes. I use Brucontrol software which has this functionality built in the pid settings but you could accomplish it many ways.
 
Last edited:

daveerickson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
48
Reaction score
15
Your correct the jackets on the better conicals are insulated.. i dont belive the cone area is insulated at all on the BW conical so you might be able to put a heat pad there which would be better anyway. We re not yet using our insulated jacketed 3 bbl conicals because covid has put a huge delay in our renovation plans and they wont fit in our current brewery space.

a third option is using somthing like a cartridge heater with a PWM controller in addition to temp control which will effectively limit the max power to the element. I do this on my rims to take one of the 6000w ULWD elements down to 4500w it limits the amount of time in seconds that the element can consecutively be powered up and therefore prevents the surface from becoming as hot. in the case of my rims it prevents localized boiling or any baked buildup on the element surface as well as helping with preventing denatured enzymes. I use Brucontrol software which has this functionality built in the pid settings but you could accomplish it many ways.
I did some tapping around (very scientific) and the cone has the same 'dead' tap as the rest of the insulated areas, except the dimpled area around the racking port which has more of a ting like the very top uninsulated part of the tank. That said, I wonder if I could use the insulation to my advantage and use a heat pad designed for oil pans without damaging the yeast.


I have evaluated Brucontrol (numerous times), but I kicked Windows out of my life 15 years ago and am pretty committed to keeping it that way. I respect their choice in platform to target as it would probably turn people off if they also had to install something like ubuntu first, or setup linux on a chromebook. It appears it is a .NET app, so in theory they could compile for it, but it would probably come with a host of additional work to make it function well.

Anyhoo, thanks for the thoughtful suggestions. My favorite part of this hobby is the plethora of options that lead to the same outcome.
 

Latest posts

Top