When doing an all grain recipe? I have done 2 all grains brews so far. Each one, I always make up too much sparge water, which I think hurts my efficiency a little bit. I always mash with 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. But, during the sparge I dont know how much water to add. So far, the recipes have called for an hour boil. But, the recipes also have different amounts of grain which I am sure affects how much water you should add to the sparge. I always shoot for about 7 gallons preboil. Is there a way to know how much water to add to the sparge to achieve about 7 gallons in the preboil, or is it always a guessing game?
How to figure out sparge water quantity?
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dontman
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BeerSmith will tell you exactly how much water to add. I assume the other packages will too I just don't use them so I can't attest to it.
jescholler
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I think the key is to assume that the grain will absorb some amount of wort, and you will have some amount of wort that isn't absorbed in grain, but you can't get out of your vessel. For me the total of those two is about 0.15 gallons per pound of grain. I've heard other people get about 0.1 to 0.2. Subtract that amount from your mash and sparge water and you've got your number. Or PM me and I have a spreadsheet I use that I can e-mail you. I think it's pretty sweet. It incorporates Palmer's brewing water mineral calculations and his mash temperature calculations (e.g. how hot to heat your mash water prior to adding grain, how hot to heat your sparge water, etc.).
Ive been using beersmith but it has been telling me some weird things. For example, I just entered a pretty simple Pale Ale recipe. I batch sparge, so under the mash profile I selected "Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge." When I click on the Brewsheet, it tells me to prepare 6.98 gallons of water for brewing. For the mash, it tells me add 13.13 qt. of water at 163.7 degrees F. Then for the sparge it tells me for Round 1 to sparge with 3.70 gallons of 168 degree F water. For Round 2, sparge with 1.91 gallons of 168 degree F water. Then, it says add water to achieve boil volume of 5.72 gallons.
If you do the math on those numbers it doesnt make sense? It tells me to prepare 6.98 gallons for brewing but if you add up all the numbers for the mash and sparge you get 8.9 gallons?
And what is the deal with Round 1 and 2 of sparges? I would only like to do one batch sparge since I have a converted keg that is big enough to hold the whole batch. I have that selected in my profile in Beersmith but it is still telling me to do a round 1 and 2?
If you do the math on those numbers it doesnt make sense? It tells me to prepare 6.98 gallons for brewing but if you add up all the numbers for the mash and sparge you get 8.9 gallons?
And what is the deal with Round 1 and 2 of sparges? I would only like to do one batch sparge since I have a converted keg that is big enough to hold the whole batch. I have that selected in my profile in Beersmith but it is still telling me to do a round 1 and 2?
You need math, not software. It's easy to to by hand. It's just what you need to reach your desired boil volume after the first runnings. You could measure it with a spoon marked out in gallons. I prefer to sit down and do the math. Basically it's your boil volume minus the watter you put in the mash plus .12 gallons per pound of grain for absorption and whatever dead space you have. I no longer use beersmith and am a better brewer with out it.
dutch-brew
Well-Known Member
I agree, for some reason beersmith is off on temps and volumes sometimes.. i use another program (forgot the name, mashwater pro?) which works great for me, and cross-check it with beersmith.
And some of it is a little experience with prior batches and common sense.
And some of it is a little experience with prior batches and common sense.
springer
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I use 1.25 qts per pound of grain . I measure the first running and subtract that from my desired total pre boil volume. The number of gallons is my sparge water amount . Don't need software for it. I batch sparge so it will be different than fly
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+1 - it doesn't matter if I do 1.25 qt/lb or 2 qt/lb; I take 7 - mash runnings = sparge/2
I always heat up 6 gallons of sparge water; that way I'll have enough no matter what my mash runnings are, and when I have left over hot water in the HLT I can use it to clean stuff.
GOOCHY
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Forgive me, but where does the "7" come from in your equation?
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that's my pre-boil volume in gallons. I get about 1.25 gallons of boil off, and about .25 lost in the kettle, so I get about 5.5 gallons into the fermenter.
GOOCHY
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OK, and you know your preboil volume will be 7 gallons because of the recipe? (I know these are dumb questions but I'm a newb)
You know your preboil volume because you'll know your own equipment. I only have a 7 gallon pot, so I only boil 6.25 gallons. Also, I don't boil off as much inside as many do, so boiling 6.25 gallons gives me 5.5 gallons in the fermenter. It really depends on your system, but starting with 6.5 to 7 gallons is a good place to start.
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what she said
It took me about until my 4th or 5th AG batch before I finally figured out most of my equipment. I still tinker with most batches (volumes, mash water/grain ratio, # of sparges, etc), and I take good notes to compare when things go for better, or worse.
springer
Well-Known Member
every system is different. I have to scale down my grain bill sometimes to stay in the beers style. I average high 80's in efficiency. But like I said I boil off a consistent 1 1/2 gallons during a 60 minute boil. So to get 11 gallons in my fermenter I need 12-1/2 to 13 gallons into the boil pot. Doesn't matter if I do 5 gallon or 10 gallon batches the boil off amount remains pretty stable at 1 1/2 gallons per hour.
Schnitzengiggle
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Like most have said it is as simple as measuring your first runnings and calculating how much sparge water you need to reach your pre-boil volume.
You need to brew once or twice to figure out what your pre-boil volume is, for instance I have a 15 gal kettle, and my first AG I went with 7 gallons pre boil volume, after a 90 minute boil I ended up with about 4.75 gallons and had to add some water to make 5.5, having said that I still hit my gravity because I ended up with 81% efficiency on my first brew. Next time I know to start with about 8 gallons (90 minute boil) to achieve 5.5 gallons into the fermenter.
FWIW, I use Beersmith and it works great! You need to have your equipment setup as accurately as possible and you have to play with the batch sparge volume % to get either 2 equal volumes, or 1 single batch sparge volume, It is pretty simpe, it took some tinkering for me but I figured it out, jsut play with Beersmith's numbers for the batch sparge volumes.
You need to brew once or twice to figure out what your pre-boil volume is, for instance I have a 15 gal kettle, and my first AG I went with 7 gallons pre boil volume, after a 90 minute boil I ended up with about 4.75 gallons and had to add some water to make 5.5, having said that I still hit my gravity because I ended up with 81% efficiency on my first brew. Next time I know to start with about 8 gallons (90 minute boil) to achieve 5.5 gallons into the fermenter.
FWIW, I use Beersmith and it works great! You need to have your equipment setup as accurately as possible and you have to play with the batch sparge volume % to get either 2 equal volumes, or 1 single batch sparge volume, It is pretty simpe, it took some tinkering for me but I figured it out, jsut play with Beersmith's numbers for the batch sparge volumes.
Going back to my question, can anyone explain why beersmith is telling me to start with 6.98 gallons of water but somehow sparge with 8.9 gallons?
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
Are you certain you have your "equpiment" setup properly in Beersmith?
For your recipe do you have the correct batch size selected? It can also make a difference if you have the checkbox selected to adjust boil volume for your equipment.
Something definitely sounds amiss.
What do you use for equipment, what size mash tun, what size pot?
For your recipe do you have the correct batch size selected? It can also make a difference if you have the checkbox selected to adjust boil volume for your equipment.
Something definitely sounds amiss.
What do you use for equipment, what size mash tun, what size pot?
I have 3 converted kegs, so all 15 gallon kettles including the mash tun. But, you are right, I messed around and found the settings in beersmith were off.
Thanks
I still dont like how it is telling me to do 2 rounds of sparging. I guess I can just combine the quantities it is telling me into 1 round?
Thanks
I still dont like how it is telling me to do 2 rounds of sparging. I guess I can just combine the quantities it is telling me into 1 round?
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
In your mash profile, the button next to the mash name on the recipe "details" will allow you to change settings, make sure you have all of the boxes checked, and change your fill mash tun volume to 100% . If thast doesn't work, play with your volume to fill the mash tun % to get it to one sparge, and if that fails, just combine the two volumes it does give you into one sparge. Usually, it will give you 2 sparge volumes if your equipment is too small to have that amount of grain and water in the tun at the same time.
FWIW, when I enterd my first 10 gallon recipe it wanted me to sparge 3 times, I changed the volume to fill mash tun percentage from 50% (for 2 equal sparges w/5 gallons) to 100% for a 10 gallon batch to get 2 equal sparge volumes for the 10 gallons.
Like I said tinker with it, and it will do what you need it to, and if you feel like you've screwed something up you can always change all of the settings back to "default".
I hope this helps, I had a hard time understanding the mash profiles for my first AG too!
FWIW, when I enterd my first 10 gallon recipe it wanted me to sparge 3 times, I changed the volume to fill mash tun percentage from 50% (for 2 equal sparges w/5 gallons) to 100% for a 10 gallon batch to get 2 equal sparge volumes for the 10 gallons.
Like I said tinker with it, and it will do what you need it to, and if you feel like you've screwed something up you can always change all of the settings back to "default".
I hope this helps, I had a hard time understanding the mash profiles for my first AG too!
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
Depends on your recipe, some people will mash for 40 minutes while others will mash for 75-90 minutes, it just depends on how quickly conversion takes place. Your grainbill will be the largest determining factor in conversion.
My first AG, I went ahead and mashed for 75 minutes to ensure complete conversion. I wasn't going to buy an iodine test kit, or a refractometer, so I wanted to be certain I had converted all of the satrches in my grain. If my first recipe finishes well and id well accepted by friends and family, I will brew it again only in a 10 gallon batch, but I will only mash for 60 minutes, I think 75 minutes was overkill, but I was anxious about my first AG.
All you have to do is dive in, brew it, and you will know what you can do differently next time to make the process easier, and what to expect from the brewday.
My first AG was between 6-8 hours from prep to finish, I did treat my water with campden tabs the night before to ensure I had remove all of the chlorine/chloramines, but other than that I just got all of my equipment out and setup in the morning and began brewing. I did have a buddy give me a hand (he is not a brewer, just an extra set of hands) which was a huge help, I would have hated to go about it alone the first time, but now I have the confidence to do it on my own knowing what to expect, and knowing the mistakes I made (which were very minor).
Conversion and fermentability are different. You could have conversion in less than 15 minutes. Fermentability is a factor of time, temp and DP.
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
As far as conversion, it's directly related to the diastatic power of the grain bill. If you use more adjuncts (or grains in general with low diastatic power), I would allow more time for them to convert.
As far as the sparge water, I usually mash at 1.5 qt/lb. and sparge with 1.75 qt/lb. I was told by my LHBS guy (whom I have great faith in) that once you have more than about 3.3 qt of water going through your grain, you're going to start pulling the tanins out of the grains. My 3.25 qt/lb plays it a little safe, but I regularly obtain a 78-79% eff, which works for me.
As far as the sparge water, I usually mash at 1.5 qt/lb. and sparge with 1.75 qt/lb. I was told by my LHBS guy (whom I have great faith in) that once you have more than about 3.3 qt of water going through your grain, you're going to start pulling the tanins out of the grains. My 3.25 qt/lb plays it a little safe, but I regularly obtain a 78-79% eff, which works for me.
