How to deal leftover yeast that we use for small BIAB batches?

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Elysium82

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Hey guys,

So, a sachet of Safale US-05 (11.5 grs) is enough for 20-30L of wort. My batches will be around 6-8L. So, what do I do with the rest? Shall I just keep the sachet in the fridge and use it again? Or shall I just use the entire sachet and give the yeast a better chance against other "opponents" in the wort? :)

Thanks.
 
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Elysium82

Elysium82

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I use half a sachet and just fold the top over and hold it closed with a clothespin. Refrigerate it and try to use it within a reasonable amount of time.
Ok. Thank you.

What would that period be? I have no idea how long an open sachet can be kept in the fridge without it going off.
 

IslandLizard

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The key is to keep the yeast granules dry!
Any moisture or wetness kills dry yeast.

So, fold that opened flap or cut-off corner over a few times, tape it shut, while squeezing as much air out as you can. Then stick that pouch inside a freezer bag, again squeezing all the air out, and store in the fridge or freezer for next use.

Let it come to room temps, say an hour before reopening, to prevent condensation.
 

Immocles

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Ok. Thank you.

What would that period be? I have no idea how long an open sachet can be kept in the fridge without it going off.
I’ve gone 2-3 months on an open packet more than a couple times with no issues. I actually think I went damn near a year with an open voss clipped shut in a ziploc bag in the fridge.
 

hotbeer

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I take a piece of shipping tape and fold it over the end of the sachet after pressing out all the air I can within reason get out with just my fingers.

How long will it last in the fridge? I bet it's pretty long seeing how the jars of instant bread yeast and active dry bread yeast that I've had for a couple years still seem to work well. And they've been opened and closed many times with no ability to evacuate the air in the jar.

With time, it's not like one day it's good and the next it's all bad and dead. Besides, you probably calculate to over pitch. And that small bit of packet is just a part of the billions and billions of yeast you are going to pitch. Even if past the freshness date, I'm betting there will be plenty of viable yeast.
 

Protos

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I mostly brew 5.5L/1.5G batches. Depending on the yeast, I use ⅓ or ¼ of the sachet for a batch. Each time I need to take some yeast, I put a candle on the table to make an uplifting current of air, disinfect the sachet and scissors with Isopropyl alcohol, cut off one corner, weigh the needed amount of yeast (2.5 or 3 g), then tightly fold the corner with disinfected pincers and seal it folded with scotch tape so that the sides of the tape are glued together beyond the sachet edge, then spray the sachet one more time with Alcohol and put it into a disinfected box in my fridge. Next time I cut off and reseal another corner. Four corners - four doses. Some of my resealed sachets have been kept for a year or.more between batches. Never had any infection issues from that side.

I was thinking of a different way to store the yeasts from my partially used sachets too, namely to move them to tiny 10 mL medicine phials. But I'm not sure that would be as safe as the fold-n-tape method, as the stopper would be opened multiple times and airborne bacteria would settle between it and the rim and you can't spray it with Alcohol without geting some spray on the yeast.
 
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Miraculix

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Seal it with tape and put it in the freezer. That way it stays dry, as long as the freezer runs.

After half a year, I would throw it out, but it's probably viable much longer.
 

Miraculix

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I mostly brew 5.5L/1.5G batches. Depending on the yeast, I use ⅓ or ¼ of the sachet for a batch. Each time I need to take some yeast, I put a candle on the table to make an uplifting current of air, disinfect the sachet and scissors with Isopropyl alcohol, cut off one corner, weigh the needed amount of yeast (2.5 or 3 g), then tightly fold the corner with disinfected pincers and seal it folded with scotch tape so that the sides of the tape are glued together beyond the sachet edge, then spray the sachet one more time with Alcohol and put it into a disinfected box in my fridge. Next time I cut off and reseal another corner. Four corners - four doses. Some of my resealed sachets have been kept for a year or.more between batches. Never had any infection issues from that side.

I was thinking of a different way to store the yeasts from my partially used sachets too, namely to move them to tiny 10 mL medicine phials. But I'm not sure that would be as safe as the fold-n-tape method, as the stopper would be opened multiple times and airborne bacteria would settle between it and the rim and you can't spray it with Alcohol without geting some spray on the yeast.
Man, that sounds almost like a disorder to me :D

That's really over the top. I can understand the alcohol at the opening, but all the rest is over the top. We are not working in sterile environment, all of our beer is full of "unwanted" microbes. As long as you keep good sanitation and conditions of the fermentation within the right range, all is good.

What you are doing is emulating a sterile environment, but the surplus is lost as soon as the yeast hits the air or the wort.

Honestly, I just rip the pack open, weigh the amount I need, squeeze out air, close the opening with duct tape (Mc Gyver would approve) and into the freezer it goes. Key step is the freezer.
 

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Hi, I'm Protos and I have Yeast-Sachet-Overdisinfection Disorder...

I think your simplified disinfection protocol may be feasible when you store partially-used sachet in a freezer at -18C.
My strict regimen is the least I can do to safely store my yeasts long-time in a fridge at +5C. Microbiologically, fridge is one of the messiest places in the house, little better that the latrine, disgusting visible biofilms and fuzzy fungal colonies grow there in no time despite the cold.
I strongly believe it unwise to store yeasts below zero, as a quantity of water in the yeast, however little it is, is still capable of freezing and damaging the cells. The yeast may work afterwards but wouldn't be as viable as those not subjected to freezing. And with the tiny quantities of yeast I use for a batch the viability matters more that it would have in a larger batch with a larger dosing of yeast.

"Fold-n-tape" is a lot of hassle, I agree. I tried simpler resealing opened sachets by "soldering" the opened corner by cutting it with a red-hot knife, but the results were inconsistent and not reliable enough. Fermentis sachets, f.ex., may be "soldered" well, while MJ's, which have a thicker metal layer, is a PITA to reseal by this method. So I don't use it.
 
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Miraculix

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Hi, I'm Protos and I have Yeast-Sachet-Overdisinfection Disorder...

I think your simplified disinfection protocol may be feasible when you store partially-used sachet in a freezer at -18C.
My strict regimen is the least I can do to safely store my yeasts long-time in a fridge at +5C. Microbiologically, fridge is one of the messiest places in the house, little better that the latrine, disgusting visible biofilms and fuzzy fungal colonies grow there in no time despite the cold.
I strongly believe it unwise to store yeasts below zero, as a quantity of water in the yeast, however little it is, is still capable of freezing and damaging the cells. The yeast may work afterwards but wouldn't be as viable as those not subjected to freezing. And with the tiny quantities of yeast I use for a batch the viability matters more that it would have in a larger batch with a larger dosing of yeast.

"Fold-n-tape" is a lot of hassle, I agree. I tried simpler resealing opened sachets by "soldering" the opened corner by cutting it with a red-hot knife, but the results were inconsistent and not reliable enough. Fermentis sachets, f.ex., may be "soldered" well, while MJ's, which have a thicker metal layer, is a PITA to reseal by this method. So I don't use it.
Just judged on anecdotal and practical experience from me and others, freezing dry yeast doesn't make a difference in yeast behaviour. But it certainly makes a difference in microbial growth which is 0 below 0c and the same for water attraction of the yeast. So two big plusses. I agree on the fridge being a messy place on microbiological level. That's why I avoid it with opened yeast packs. My sealed ones are in there but not my opened ones.

But on the other hand.... I just don't do this storing open packs thing anymore. My batches are big enough to justify a whole pack and I don't do much small batches anymore.


I was actually thinking about getting one of these big yeast packs and keeping it in the freezer though. 500g Nottingham should last a long time.
 
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Protos

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Just judged on anecdotal and practical experience from me and others, freezing dry yeast doesn't make a difference in yeast behaviour.
Well, I think I just need to try it. I don't like the idea of multiple (at least 3) deep-freeze and un-freeze cycles for each sachet. But what if it works? I'm not particularly fond of my method, it's a lot of hassle. On bad nights, I have dreams of Black Aspergillus creeping in the dark of the fridge into my thoroughly disinfected sachets through the micro cracks in the tape.
No Aspergillus in the freezer. No more nightmares.
I'll think about it.
 

Miraculix

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Well, I think I just need to try it. I don't like the idea of multiple (at least 3) deep-freeze and un-freeze cycles for each sachet. But what if it works? I'm not particularly fond of my method, it's a lot of hassle. On bad nights, I have dreams of Black Aspergillus creeping in the dark of the fridge into my thoroughly disinfected sachets through the micro cracks in the tape.
No Aspergillus in the freezer. No more nightmares.
I'll think about it.
If you are quick enough with opening and resealing, the yeast won't defrost so there's technically only one cycle of freezing and defrosting.
 

Steveruch

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Hey guys,

So, a sachet of Safale US-05 (11.5 grs) is enough for 20-30L of wort. My batches will be around 6-8L. So, what do I do with the rest? Shall I just keep the sachet in the fridge and use it again? Or shall I just use the entire sachet and give the yeast a better chance against other "opponents" in the wort? :)

Thanks.
I often use Muntons on smaller batches. It's 5 gram.
 

aceluby

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When I do single gallon batches I use half for the batch and put the other half in a small sanitized jar for the next batch. Lately I've taken the yeast cake from the 1 gallon batches and pitching that into a 5 gallon batch
 

AlexKay

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Anecdote != data, but a few times (3? 4? 5?) now I've had batches that didn't start by day 3, and of those, all of them were from open yeast sachets stored in the freezer. I now plan my 1-G batches so there's a group of 2 to 4 batches using the same yeast, and do them on sequential days so the yeast doesn't sit in the freezer that long.
 

Protos

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Supposedly, open flame creates an uplift air current which prevents airborne bacteria to settle down on the yeast and equipment. Kinda what ventilation hoods do in labs.
 

Protos

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What are the sure signs of recovery from Yeast-Sachet-Overdisinfection Disorder?
Is it wnen the remaining yeasts are poured out of the sachets into an old ham can in the closet, all together, and then occasionally taken by the pinch for all subsequent inoculations? :D
 

hotbeer

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What are the sure signs of recovery from Yeast-Sachet-Overdisinfection Disorder?
Probably when you just fold a piece of tape over the open sachet without sanitizing the sachet.

I don't touch the open end of the sachet or put my fingers or anything inside it. Nor does the content of the sachet ever come in contact with the outside of the sachet.
 

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One doesn't need to touch the open end with fingers to infect the yeast. The tape itself is full of bacteria. And the open end, even when taped, is a gate wide enough for bacterial biofilms to grow into the inside of the sachet.
That's why folding the open end AND sanitizing it before applying the tape are very benificial. Though, even that does not guarantee safety.
 

hotbeer

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methinks you are a germaphobe! Hypothetical and theoretical and even scientific fact sometimes need to be balanced with practical experience and statistics to see if it's worth going to the extremes.

Any microbes on those things aren't mobile by their own means unless they can grow colonies to spread out. Which they don't have the necessary requirements to do.

And when I cut the sachet again just below the original cut and poor out the remaining yeast, none touches any of that stuff anyhow.
 
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bracconiere

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i want to say this thread gave me an idea for an experiment, i tried it and it worked good....

i put a putty knife on the stove to get it really hot, put my yeast pack on a flat metal surface, used the hot putty knife to press down with the tip on the open side, it sealed up nice and air tight...


i appreciate the idea! :mug:
 

Protos

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methinks you are a germaphobe!

OK, thanks for labeling me a germaphobe.
I wonder, how would I label people that deny simplest sanitation procedures if I had a habit of labeling people?
🐷

hot putty knife
I've tried that. It works with Fermentis. Works much worse with MJ. No way to work with Lallemand.
 

bracconiere

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Protos

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I like that! ^
Was thinking of this too. If you put a single batch dose into each tube and make a single-use of each, you may really drop the sanitation hassle completely.
🐽🐽🐽 :D

They are prohibitevly expensive here though :(
The sterile ones I mean.
 
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hotbeer

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OK, thanks for labeling me a germaphobe.
I wonder, how would I label people that deny simplest sanitation procedures if I had a habit of labeling people?
Well I thought you'd take that as fun picking as I'd suppose you and any of your friends would do at the Pub.

However I apologize for offending you.

Read replies with a smile and don't impart bad tones or sentiment to them.
 

Miraculix

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I like that! ^
Was thinking of this too. If you put a single batch dose into each tube and make a single-use of each, you may really drop the sanitation hassle completely.
🐽🐽🐽 :D

They are prohibitevly expensive here though :(
They would perfectly fit into a freezer!!! :D
 

Protos

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Yep! If the tubes are sterile, one may store them anywhere. Even in the latrine, if the temperature regime there allows :D

Well I thought you'd take that as fun picking as I'd suppose you and any of your friends would do at the Pub.

However I apologize for offending you.

Read replies with a smile and don't impart bad tones or sentiment to them.
Sorry if I missed your good humour. In this thread I feel myself vulnerable and on the defensive side :D
 

mashpaddled

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I tend to only buy dry yeast as bottling strains for my mixed fermentation beers, exactly because of this issue. Far easier to build up some of the slurry of one of the strains in my fridge for the batch size. I will say I have done the fold over and tape technique in the fridge with several dry strains with no issues, even after some of have been in the fridge for more than a year. Granted, these are going into sour or brett beers where a small amount of unintended passengers isn't a big deal.
 

hotbeer

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I feel myself vulnerable and on the defensive side :D
I get that way too.

But believe me when I say that I don't want my friends to agree with me all the time. We wouldn't have anything useful to talk about other than imagine ourselves superior to everyone else.

Growing up without the internet and social media, I learned to either put up with people having different views on things or there just wouldn't be any friends to play with.
 

Protos

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That's all true.
My takeaway from growing up not just without the internet, but also without the mobile phones, was that I severely limit now my beerpub-style personal puns online, however well-intended they are and however smart and brilliant they look to me. People very often didn't get my good humour because they didn't see my face or hear my voice, so instead of seeing them adoring my extraordinary smartness I had to ask for apologies more often than I'd like.
And I don't like to ask for apologies.
 

madscientist451

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Man, that sounds almost like a disorder to me :D

That's really over the top. I can understand the alcohol at the opening, but all the rest is over the top. We are not working in sterile environment, all of our beer is full of "unwanted" microbes. As long as you keep good sanitation and conditions of the fermentation within the right range, all is good.
Yeah, I agree, I'm way to lazy for all that extra work. I usually brew 2.5 to 3.5 gallon batches and I just toss the whole pack in (OMG I'm over-pitching :eek:) and then save the yeast slurry in a jar in the fridge. I use about half the slurry in the next batch, maybe make a starter if its been a while between brews. I suppose making a starter is extra work, and if I want to be really lazy I'll just buy more packs of yeast, but I'm also kind of a cheap, so I always have inner conflicts....:rolleyes: .
After 4-5 batches, time for a new pack, but I've gone much longer without problems.
:mug:
 
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