How to approach a Barleywine

[MVKTR2]

Guys I'm doing a BW in a few weeks, about a month exactly and have no idea of what I'm gonna do. Okay so that's not exactly true. How does this look for an idea? I used SourHopHead's West Mesa Barleywine as inspiration.

Is the best approach a simple one? Base malt, crystal, perhaps victory/munich for character, then us proper hop & yeast to style.

Anyway here's my recipe, input appreciated!!! :fro:

Perfect 10
Beer Style: American Barleywine
Recipe Type: All Grain

Malt and Fermentables
% LB OZ MALT OR FERMENTABLE PPG °L
88% 11 12 British Pale 37 3
5% 0 11 Cane Sugar 45 0
5% 0 10 American Crystal 40L 34 40
2% 0 4 Belgian Special B 30 220
Total 13lb 5oz

Batch size: 4.0 gallons
Original Gravity-1.096 (1.086 to 1.100)
Final Gravity-1.021(1.018 to 1.023)
Color15° SRM / 30° EBC (Light Brown to Medium Brown)
Mash Efficiency-77%

Hops
USE TIME OZ VARIETY FORM AA
boil 60 mins 0.75 Nugget pellet 13.0
boil 20 mins 0.5 Willamette pellet 5.5
boil 20 mins 0.5 Cascade pellet 5.5
boil 20 mins 0.5 Amarillo pellet 7.3
boil 20 mins 0.5 Chinook pellet 11.5
boil 5 mins 0.5 Willamette pellet 5.5
boil 5 mins 0.5 Cascade pellet 5.5
boil 5 mins 0.5 Chinook pellet 11.5
boil 5 mins 0.5 Amarillo pellet 7.3
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Willamette pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Chinook pellet 11.5
dry hop 7 days 0.5 Amarillo pellet 7.3
Boil: 5.8 avg gallons for 60 minutes
Bitterness
9.8 HBU
89.2 IBU

BU:GU-0.93
Yeast-Fermentis US-05
Alcohol-10.0% A.B.V.
Calories-314 per 12 oz.

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[ajwillys]

A couple notes:
1) Assume lower mash efficiency than you normally get. I normally (at the time) was hitting around 72% efficiency but for my BW, got 60%
2) Use a long boil. This gives good caramelization of the wort (which I like in BW) but more importantly helps give you higher efficiency since you are sparging more. My boil was 2 hours and I honestly think this is a good time.
3) Your grain bill looks good. Definitely want to keep the crystal's low and I think its also good to have a bit of simple sugar. I did a pound/5 gallons. I like your grain bill.
4) Make sure you have extra fermentables (DME). While you may plan on doing all grain, its always nice to be able to throw a pound of DME in if your OG is reading low with 10 minutes left in the boil
5) Not sure about the hop schedule you have there. Are you going for an American style BW where the hop character is quite present or are you just trying to balance? Your hop schedule reads more like an IIPA to me.
6) Go with alot of yeast. Either use a big starter, lots of dry sachets (three probably) or dump on a yeast cake. I did the yeast cake method and it went great. Of course, aerate like you've never aerated before.
7) Don't drink it all in the first six months!! Save some (or alot). It just gets better.

Have fun and good luck. Barleywine Brewday is my favorite brewday!

 

[Bjornbrewer]

A couple of notes:
1) your efficiency will decrease with big grain bills. Unless you know you can get 77% with 13+lbs of grain I'd assume worse. I average 75% on most beers, but got only 65% on my barleywines and such.

2) IMO using too many hops in the same addition (say 20 min flavor addition) just drowns out the specific hop character. I'd stick with maybe two different hops for each addition...say the Cascades and Will's.

3) Mashing a bit lower than expected may help get the FG a bit lower...with big grain bills the FG tends to sit higher than expected. You don't have a mash temp listed, but I'd go with around 150-152 for a medium body.

4) I've used liquid yeast and a huge starter for big beers....not sure how the US-05 will stand up to a OG of 1.096. Since you shouldn't use a starter with dry yeast, I'd rehydrate per directions and pitch two packets.

my $0.02, good luck!

 

[Bjornbrewer]

beat me to it ajwillys! Good advice on the extra DME

 

[MVKTR2]

aj, those are 7 good pointers, 5 of which I'm following.

I'm currently getting 78-80% eff. on the average 10# grainbill so I figure 75% is pretty close for a measly 2.5# more. Sure it might drop to 72 or something, but no big deal.

Thanks for the pointers/reminders.

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[MVKTR2]

thanks also Bjorn

A couple notes. I'm not sure if I'll use US-05, probably will, that or Edinburgh. I'm planning on pitching 2-2.5 packets of US-05, whatever the pitch calculator tells me. If I use the Edinburgh, I'll drop my mash temp a little to compensentate for the relatively high finishing gravity. I'm planning on doing a 90 min boil. Depending on the yeast I use mash in the 149 range.

aj - as for the hops I'm going for an Am. Barleywine. It's only 6.75 ounces of hops, 4.75 in the boil (all hail the hop bag!). It's a good point one of you made about maybe simplifying the hop bill. My thinking on using the 4 hop combo is first how well cascade & Will. work together, and I'll get the nice resiney earthen pine with a hint of citrus from the Chinook & Amarillo. Thinking it'll be good, not muddy. I'm not opposed to simplifying, but don't want to go to Casc/Will duo. I only have almost 7 #s of hops in the freezer...I gotta use em!

I feel like I've got the 'brew' aspects of the big bier under controll and both of you guys have hit most every important point. I just got through with my biggest bier thus far a 1.090 RIS which I got 84% eff. from doing all the right things and used Windsor yeast to get it down to 1.021! I should be able to handle the brewing aspects of this one also . check out my blog for video etc. about the RIS & more (shameless self promotion :fro

My main concern is for the recipe as I've never given it much thought. It seems many BW recipes I ran across are very simple like the one I mentioned in my OP, though some get weird with melanoidin malt & vienna/munich/etc. Btw how dry could/should a 1.088-1.100 BW get, 1.016 too dry? Or is it better off at 1.020ish? Also according to Greg Daniels chart Am. Barleywine should be a .94 BU:GU ratio, thoughts? That's one reason I've got this thing so hopcentric. That and the fact that I've got a RIS bottled, about to brew a very malty Wee Heavy, and don't need another big malty bier, looking for a bit more balance, but too style.

So what do yall think of the hop profile & recipe overall. For the record two of my favorite BWs are 2 of the 'less sexy/more common' offerings on the market Bigfoot (some sexy) & Old Foghorn (as sexy as your grandpas underwear). Bigfoot is certainly hoppy, some years more than others. Don't forget when it's released it's 10+ months old!

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[Bjornbrewer]

My main concern is for the recipe as I've never given it much thought. It seems many BW recipes I ran across are very simple like the one I mentioned in my OP, though some get weird with melanoidin malt & vienna/munich/etc. Btw how dry could/should a 1.088-1.100 BW get, 1.016 too dry? Or is it better off at 1.020ish? Also according to Greg Daniels chart Am. Barleywine should be a .94 BU:GU ratio, thoughts? That's one reason I've got this thing so hopcentric. That and the fact that I've got a RIS bottled, about to brew a very malty Wee Heavy, and don't need another big malty bier, looking for a bit more balance, but too style.

So what do yall think of the hop profile & recipe overall.

Phillip, I've done a couple recipes myself...the first one ended up at like 1.025 and it was amazing! It had huge maltiness, but just as big hop profile. I think it was around 85-90 IBU's. The second one I dropped the mash temp from 154 to 150 and it finished around 1.020. Still good maltiness, but more pronounced hops...I also used all Centennials on that one. In both I had around 1.5# of crystal malt, FYI.

BW are malty by style so don't expect an IIPA from it.

Stick with the hops you have, but maybe drop the mash temp a bit to get the hop profile out a bit more...finishing at 1.016 is still in style.

Cheers

 

[ajwillys]

Only additional comments I have is that it should be 1.020-1.025 (anything less thant than 1.020 is probably too dry) roughly, I think. It is definitely a malty style but because it has SO much malt, you don't brew it like you would a normal 'malty' beer. That is to say, you don't want high mash temps or lots of caramels. This particular style is SO malty simply cuz it has LOTS of malt... and that's the way it should be. Even to get an acceptable FG, you need to mash low and long, and use really fermentable hops.

Regarding the hops schedule. I have my own set of rules when I make recipes and one is that you can only really 'showcase' one, maybe two things in a beer. In a BW, number one should be maltiness, and two should be warming alcohol. In an Amercian BW, you could argue that hops are tied for number two, but even then, I consider hop bitterness one and flavor/aroma a second. I'm not worried about your hops messing up the beer, I more think they simply won't come through. Either way, I think you have something that will work excellently. The only thing I would normally be worried about (not in your case) is not overdoing the maltiness (there's enough there on its own) and using enough yeast. It's hard to stress the yeast thing too much. Yeast is your friend in a BW. It's not a like you're trying to coax esters out of your yeast like a hefe or belgian. Just use lots of yeast.

EDIT: Bit buzzed right now so the above might be complete ramblings..

 

[user 22118]

My Barleywine that I made in January mashed at 149, used 30# of grain for a 7 gallon batch and I had it go from 1.120 to 1.022 using two packets of US-05 and fermenting at 68 for two days and then up to 72 for a week and a half. It finished fermentation after four days and I left it in the fermenter for just shy of three weeks.

I mention all of this because it is possible to do all of this fairly simply. Your recipe looks sound, though I would simplify the hops schedule to two additions and three at the most. Personally I would hold off on the dry hop until the week before bottling to make it the most potent.

Though BW age well, I drank through two gallons the week after I kegged it It was fantastic! The only thing that saved the other five gallons is that I had it in a whiskey barrel and just bottled it three days ago. I think that a lot of people make their BW in a way that isn't conducive to both aging and drinking. If your mash tun can take it I might even advise adding another couple of pounds in order to get your gravity to the 1.100 mark.