Saison How Rye I Am (Rye Saison) - 2011 - 1st Place Best of Show - HBT Comp

[Grasslands]

Just a quickie update, my take on this recipe took down a gold medal in the saison category this past weekend at CASK's First Coast Cup in Jacksonville, FL!

There were so many saisons entered that they made it its own medal category aside from category 16. That makes this the third straight competition this ale has reached the medal rounds. Pumped!!!

 

[jdub44]

Awesome! Mine turned out great. Will bottle some this weekend for submission into some comps. It'd be awesome to win some medals.

 

[tgmartin000]

I'm getting ready to bottle my version of this one in a few days here. Just wondering, I see the original is carbed to about 2.7 volumes. How many volumes are all you bottlers carbing to? 2.7 seems like it may overcarbonate, to me. Any tips?

Thanks!

 

[natewv]

So I love Rye and I love a saison (though I never made one) I'm very lucky to live in Baltimore where Stillwater just opened a brewpub/restaurant, and it's only making me want it more. I'm less lucky that my LHBS doesn't carry Wyeast so i'm just going to use one of the WLP 56x saison yeasts. I don't have a choice (mostly because of laziness), so is there one that anyone would suggest as an alternative?

 

[eviljay]

Make the drive down to Annapolis home brew. They carry wyeast! There's really no wlp sub for the French Saison.

 

[Hopelesst]

I'm working on a version of this crossed with a historical recipie for a sage ale. I'm doing some experiments to figure out the bittering power of sage. The recipie looks like this:

48% Belgian Pilsner
18% Rye Malt
16% Turbinado Sugar
12% Flaked Wheat
06% Biscuit Malt

OG: 1.073
SRM: 8
IBU: 27

Half the ibus from saaz, half from sage. Some sage and saaz for aroma and dryhopping. Couple ounces of lemon juice in secondary. Idead is to get the peppery, spicy notes to play with the citrus and sage. Biscuit's is there to up the breadiness a bit.

I'm real excited about this one, and picked up the hops and sage to start my tests earlier today. I plan I brewing the original recipie in the spring too.

 

[beowulf]

I'm getting ready to bottle my version of this one in a few days here. Just wondering, I see the original is carbed to about 2.7 volumes. How many volumes are all you bottlers carbing to? 2.7 seems like it may overcarbonate, to me. Any tips?

When I bottled, I carbed at 2.5 vols and it came out wonderful. I love it so much! I suppose you could carb more, but my comfort zone is on the lower side as I wanted to avoid the potential for overcarbonation or even bottle bombs. It might have been even better had I went with 2.7, but I'm extremely happy with it where it is.

 

[jdub44]

So I love Rye and I love a saison (though I never made one) I'm very lucky to live in Baltimore where Stillwater just opened a brewpub/restaurant, and it's only making me want it more. I'm less lucky that my LHBS doesn't carry Wyeast so i'm just going to use one of the WLP 56x saison yeasts. I don't have a choice (mostly because of laziness), so is there one that anyone would suggest as an alternative?

Or come up to Frederick, Flying Barrel has it too.

 

[eviljay]

And say hi to Howard, because he's badass.

 

[tmains]

Brewing a variation of this today. 8.5 gallons worth.

I was considering collecting extra runnings and doing a partigyle table beer. I haven't had a lot of success with partigyle in the past. Anyone care to chime in and offer a little help as what I may need to add to the mash tun when collecting beer #2's runnings?

Cheers!

 

[GrizBrew]

I am brewing this right now. I don't have any dark candi sugar and the LHBS doesn't open for a couple of hours. I was thinking of subbing in molasses. What do ye think?

 

[natewv]

Using a WLP568, **** it, it will be beer. Just didn't have time this weekend to make it to either spot. If Thirsty Brewer was open at a reasonable time I would have had my brother pick some up but it didn't open till 2. Weird. Anyway, it won't be exactly what I can get with 3711 but I'm going to RDWABAWB.

Never used Candi sugar before, do I just add it toward the end of the boil?

 

[eviljay]

Yeah, taste it. It's effectively rock candy.

 

[GrizBrew]

Never used Candi sugar before, do I just add it toward the end of the boil?

There are different schools of thought on when to add sugars. Some do it late in the boil, some at high krausen and some after the krausen drops. The theory behind adding during fermentation is that it stresses the yeast less because it has already chewed through the maltose and multiplied, so adding during or after krausen it can concentrate more on the sucrose and attenuate lower.

I have used 3711 many times and have always added candi sugar at high krausen. This time, I decided to add my sugar (molasses) during the boil just to get some color. I wasn't sure if dark candi (or my molasses sub) would get all of the color if I added it during krausen.

I truly think that 3711 will chew through whatever you've got no matter when you add it. Other yeasts that I trust less, I add at high krausen. As the OP mentioned, he under pitched to stress the yeast and get more esters. So worst case scenario, I figure, will be that I get more 3711 flavor

One thing to beware of: if you use software like Beersmith, it will figure your OG as if you are adding to the boil. If you plan to add at high krausen, you can either write down your OG before you include it in your ingredients list or just figure it will come out a couple of points lower, which you will get back at high krausen.

 

[makomachine]

This beer inspired me to take on a rye saison of my own creation with a different hop schedule (Styrian Goldings/Saaz) and the DuPont strain. (LHBS was out of 3711) Brewed on 7/5 and legged today 8/7 - 1056 OG and 1006 FG. All I can say is that if it turns out as good as the hydrometer sample, it will likely be my first competition beer. While not the exact same beer as this one, I did use the grain bill/proportions as this recipe, thanks to the OP for a great brew inspiration.

 

[JeepDiver]

I brewed this on 7/13, just checked the FG and it's at 1.001, so probably kegging this weekend. The sample tasted like a donkey stuck his nose in the fermenter. From reading descriptions here, I wasn't expecting that much funk (fermented it around 70-72), but the spice from the rye (and I guess some from the yeast) really has it tasting good. Got the kegerator filled right now, so going to carb with corn sugar, since it will be a couple of weeks since I have a free spot. Ready to get this on tap, should be good for end of summer/first of fall.

 

[Jukas]

I brewed this on 7/7/12 and checked it on 8/14/12. In 5 weeks on yeast it had gone to a FG of .999. Talk about a monster yeast. Looking forward to tasting it after its been in the keg for two weeks.

 

[TheDocta16]

Very cool recipe. I want to try and hone in my saison 3711 recipe. I like the idea of accenting the pepperiness w/ spicy rye. I think it is just what my brew needs. In case anyone was wondering, I hopburst mine with citra and amarillo. I'm wondering whether I should try candi syrup vs. just table sugar. Any thoughts on the flavor contributions that the syrup will make. I would most likely use a light syrup b/c I like that aesthetic and don't want any dark fruits in there.

 

[NorCalAngler]

I brewed 5 gallons of this and hit OG of 1.056 without the sugar. I let it ferment out until the krausen fell and then added 0.75lb of turbinado dissolved in a few cups of water. I let it sit for a total of 2.5 weeks and my FG is 1.002.. that yeast is a beast. Flat hydrometer sample tasted really good with a much bigger mouthfeel than I was expecting for that low of a FG.. I assume it's the rye giving it the body.

 

[usurpers26]

Yep, the rye as well as the 3711 give it a perfect mouthfeel. The 3711 really adds a nice smooth, almost creamy mouthfeel

I brewed 5 gallons of this and hit OG of 1.056 without the sugar. I let it ferment out until the krausen fell and then added 0.75lb of turbinado dissolved in a few cups of water. I let it sit for a total of 2.5 weeks and my FG is 1.002.. that yeast is a beast. Flat hydrometer sample tasted really good with a much bigger mouthfeel than I was expecting for that low of a FG.. I assume it's the rye giving it the body.

 

[natewv]

So if I wanted to age this in a secondary for awhile, would I cold crash before putting it in a secondary glass bottle (I primary in buckets) or just rack and not cold crash until I keg later? Should I even be worrying about secondarying at all? I'd rather not, even thoug I'm still trying to wrap my head around whether or not there's really a 'danger' of autolysis. That said, I probably don't want to leave it for more than 5 or 6 weeks on the yeast...right?

 

[JeepDiver]

I had mine in primary for 6 weeks on the nose with no problem then in the keg naturally carbbing for 3 weeks. Great beer that will be put into regular rotation

 

[Jukas]

Does the Rye Spicyness fade or mellow as this beer ages? I'm finding that at 26% the Rye spice is a bit sharper than I care for (which is odd as I love a good Rye Whiskey).

 

[kagythings]

I decided to make this recipe as my first all grain today and everything went well. The wort tasted great, now I just have to wait for 3711 to do its magic. I'm excited to taste how it turns out. I did overshoot my OG. I was off with my water calculations and finished with 5 gallons rather than 5.5 so I ended up with 1.070 and hope the yeast does its work with the sugar but it doesn't taste to harsh with a higher alcohol. Thanks for the recipe.

 

[jdub44]

This beer just took Reserve Best of Show in my local homebrew competition which had 123 entries. I actually brewed this as a 10 gallon batch that I split with a buddy. He decided to ferment his with Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison. I was adament on using the 3711 based on this thread. His beer didn't even place in the top 6 for that category. We sampled them both side by side. The 3711 was definitely spicier and a little drier too. What a beautiful beer, will definitely be brewing again very soon.

 

[usurpers26]

Even though it is well over a year since I posted this recipe, I have to edit the original post.

There were a few questions early on about the candi sugar and the color being SO dark... Yeah I know, it's "only" color but since we are making this a production beer on a regular schedule it was time to dot the i's and cross the t's. We should have caught this way earlier but to be honest, the color output we get from our software is probably the last thing that we verify.

The sugar is really only 75SRM, which results in a 9-10SRM beer.

 

[CrystallineEntity]

Well then mine is way too dark. I used D180 and put it in at the beginning of the boil. Just kegged it tonight. Depending on how it turns out, I might try it again with a different sugar.
Thanks for the recipe, and the correction.

 

[usurpers26]

Honestly, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned. The only difference will be the color and to be honest with ya when we first came up with the recipe we were shooting for a saison that was a little darker than the norm. The different color sugars will not alter the flavor at all.

You can say that maybe addidng the sugar earlier in the boil might have a small effect since you get more caramelization, etc. We have played aorund with when we add the sugar during the boil and haven't noticed any change in the flavor.

I just wanted to update the thread for posterities sake

Well then mine is way too dark. I used D180 and put it in at the beginning of the boil. Just kegged it tonight. Depending on how it turns out, I might try it again with a different sugar.
Thanks for the recipe, and the correction.

 

[stevensmith501]

Do you think Danstar Belle Saison would do alright with this recipe or is the Wyeast what really makes it? If this question has been asked before, I apologize. I read through several pages and didn't catch it. Thanks!

 

[ballz50401]

Just brewed this recipe today. It was in the 70's here a couple days ago and of course my only day off this week was in the 20's! Saison is one of my favorite style's and it took me 47 previous batches before I finally brewed one. Can't wait to try this!!

 

[beowulf]

I thought I'd post a couple of pics of my shot at this brew. It is simply awesome...one of my favorites! Thanks a bunch, usurpers26...

 

[Bisco_Ben]

I am about to brew this bad-boy up and have just one quick question about the starter size. I have an about 1.35 liter starter sitting the the fridge crashing. Would that be an appropriate amount to pitch into a 6 gallon batch of this beer? The mfg date on the yeast was from September I believe. Or would you guys suggest stepping it up a little to get the proper pitch rate?

 

[ballz50401]

By using this calculator: http://yeastcalc.com/ it looks like you'd be underpitching by 40% if you use intermittent shaking for the starter. It was mentioned in the recipe that this brew was underpitched by 20% to stress the yeast for more ester production. It's up to you, but a 1 liter step up starter wouldn't hurt.

 

[Bisco_Ben]

So I just brewed this up and all went well, except I had just adjusted my barley crusher and wound up with an OG of 1.070. So I just want to ask any of you who overshot the gravity by about as much as myself, how did the beer come out? Is there anything I should do to fix this? Id hate to have messed up a batch that is supposed to be as tasty as this. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[usurpers26]

You will be absolutely fine. We have adjusted our recipe/dialed in our BHE to a consistent 70OG with this beer now (at 8.6% ABV ) and it is just as fabulous.

So I just brewed this up and all went well, except I had just adjusted my barley crusher and wound up with an OG of 1.070. So I just want to ask any of you who overshot the gravity by about as much as myself, how did the beer come out? Is there anything I should do to fix this? Id hate to have messed up a batch that is supposed to be as tasty as this. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hbhudy]

Just brewed this, but swapped out Pale Malt for the Pils and Flaked Maze for the sugar, and added some aromatic malt and some peppercorn, Grains of paradise, and orange zest in the last 5 minutes.. had it sit for about 2 months while i opened up room in the keezer.. :O
Had this last night after being on gas for a week and WOW...AMAZING... At about 7%abv this will sneak up on you and super smooth..

 

[thadass]

Just brewed this yesterday. Used a German Pils malt instead of Belgian and some home-made candi sugar that's not as dark as the store-bought dark candi is, so it'll end up a bit lighter in the end. Underpitched about 20% and it's going to be at ~75F while another saison I have going finishes up, then I'll drop it to the 71F of the recipe.

Oh and I mis-recorded the recipe and only did a 60min boil... not sure how much it'll affect it, but I hit my target volume on the nose at least! Can't wait to try this in March and post a pic of the final product

 

[Aa760]

Following... Sounds like a winner!

 

[Polboy]

Brew this (or rather my version inspired by this recipe) on Sunday and its fermenting nicely. I was probably drinking when found this post months ago and now i see i modified it a bit too much, i still have 25% rye but somehow 5% of crystal 40 got to the grist together with 1.5oz of black patent for color as i missed the dark sugar. I reread the OP and im not sure if i want to add sugar to the fermenter or just skip it completely, 3711 usually drys my beers all the way 1.000-1.004 so maybe i dont need it or should i add it?

 

[Aa760]

Just brewed this up this afternoon- fun brew day, aside from the couple of stuck sparges, despite the rice hulls- did about a half pound of 'em- should have done the whole pound, I guess. Mashed a little low- 149. Hit 1.072 for my post boil OG- boiled hard for 90 mins, plus satellite boiled an extra gallon or so of the runnings when my pot filled up, then combined the two at 30 mins to go as the volume was reduced enough to get it all together. My question is this: since my OG is so high, should I still at the candi sugar (I grabbed a pound of D90 in liquid form for ease of adding once the yeast have chewed on the big 3 malt sugars for a few days)? I pitched 2L of healthy, well oxygenated and nutrified 3711 this evening at 70 degrees where it will sit for duration of fermentation, aside from natural metabolic temperature increases. Curious what those that are following this thread, those that have brewed it, and hopefully the op have to say about adding the candi sugar still, or not. Thanks in advance for your input!