How much wine tannin for store bought juice?

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Sleepy_D

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I’ve never used wine tannin before but I picked some up to try and give my ciders some more body since I’m stuck using store bought juice (the Costco variety). I was trying to see how much to use and almost everything I can find is saying “add to taste.” While that makes sense, I was hoping to get some information from the community on how much you all like to add so that I can use that as a starting point to adjust to my taste from.
 

twd000

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I typically add ~2g tannin powder per 5 gallon keg of cider

no idea how much tannin was in my juice to start - mix of non-cider apples pressed from a local orchard
 
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Sleepy_D

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I typically add ~2g tannin powder per 5 gallon keg of cider

no idea how much tannin was in my juice to start - mix of non-cider apples pressed from a local orchard
Are you using powdered wine tannin?
 

twd000

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I believe it was labelled as "chestnut tannin". I've never seen anything to indicate the different sources have different strength

here's a good article on making adjustments:
 

Chalkyt

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I have finished my cider making for this year (we are now in the middle of winter) and did few experimental single variety batches, especially Red Delicious, where I added malic acid to adjust TA and pH but not tannin. They are O.K. but it might be worth opening some to add tannin and see what it brings.

The article posted by twd000 suggests 1/4 tsp per gallon. About the only tannin powder readily available in small quantities here is Vintners Harvest (from chestnut origins) which suggests adding 5g/100L (about the same as 1/4 tsp per gallon). I am a bit surprised at the chestnut origins but suppose it must work.

Any opinions on this product and quantities that you have tried.
 
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Sleepy_D

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I have finished my cider making for this year (we are now in the middle of winter) and did few experimental single variety batches, especially Red Delicious, where I added malic acid to adjust TA and pH but not tannin. They are O.K. but it might be worth opening some to add tannin and see what it brings.

The article posted by twd000 suggests 1/4 tsp per gallon. About the only tannin powder readily available in small quantities here is Vintners Harvest (from chestnut origins) which suggests adding 5g/100L (about the same as 1/4 tsp per gallon). I am a bit surprised at the chestnut origins but suppose it must work.

Any opinions on this product and quantities that you have tried.
I believe the powdered tannin I bought is the same one you describe here, this will be the first product I am going to use. I was going to try something like 1 tsp/5 gallons so that seems consistent with what you are saying
 
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Sleepy_D

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If it's available to you, I suggest Tannin FT Blanc because it doesn't turn your cider brown like red wine tannin would.
Ah I should definitely look into that
 

RolandD

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I've started adding a teaspoon per six gallon batch. I've worked my way up to there and been pleased so far. Now I'm starting to add a teaspoon of malic acid to see how that enhances the taste.
 

Chalkyt

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Hi RolandD...Interesting that you are taking a similar approach to mine, except from the "other end". This year I experimented by adding Malic Acid to unremarkable juice and found that it made a worthwhile difference. The next step is to play with tannin... so far I have only used strong tea. This isn't very precise but generally 50ml/L gave a slight improvement, 100ml/L was O.K. and 150ml/L was a bit too much. So it would be good to get some feedback from you especially if you use tannin powder.

The apple juice was Red Delicious, because I had an abundance of them. The pH was 4.1 so I added MA to taste. The first batch was overdone at 10g in 2 litres (pH ended up at 3.2 but I didn't measure TA). It tasted O.K. before fermentation because of the inherent sugar but I had to bottle and pasteurise with some sweetness at 1.010 to end up with a reasonable outcome.

The second two litre batch only had half a teaspoon ( about 3g) of MA added and ended up with pH 3.8 and TA 0.7%.This was bottled at 1.012 and pasteurised at around 1.008 for about 2 vols of CO2. I was quite happy with this for a "quaffing" cider made from this single variety juice that I would otherwise only use as a filler or top up.

I understand that "English style" cider is generally made from low acid high tannin apples so maybe with tannin adjustment this is a possible direction for the Red Delicious apples. Previously I found the Graham's English Cider recipe using limes and tea worked quite well.
 

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